BBC News Channel/BBC World News Merger - Printable Version

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+--- Thread: BBC News Channel/BBC World News Merger (/showthread.php?tid=103)

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RE: BBC News Channel/BBC World News Merger - Moz - 07-02-2023

(07-02-2023, 01:40 PM)ALV Wrote:  For everyone's reference, here's the list of shifts on WN currently:

That’s useful. Thank you.

Looking forward to being able to watch Global when I get home from work.

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RE: BBC News Channel/BBC World News Merger - Kojak - 07-02-2023

(07-02-2023, 01:50 PM)Radio_man Wrote:  

(07-02-2023, 01:23 PM)damian Wrote:  I used to be a frequent viewer off BBC world news but I think it’s fair to say the past 8 years I’ve watched very little of the channel… just spent the past couple days watching and I do have to stay there are so many structural flaws in the way all the bulletins are. It appears very messy as if everything is just hacked together.

I was going to list a few ways the bulletins could tidy themselves up but I’d be here all week. However the only real thing that bothers me most are the lengthy and tiring toth sequences.

Reduce them to 50seconds or so were the headline bed actually has timed thunderclaps with a pitch change, not just restarting the bed for the next headline.

After the final thunderclap they could say. “This is BBC News from *location* I’m xxx xxx, also in the programme…” after the titles… “it’s 5pm in *uk place name* and 10pm *where top story is happening*

I miss these days of timed toths, that never dragged out.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=wbPyUgnjzVs&si 

https://youtube.com/watch?v=EKP0YWGq6z8&si=EnSIkaIECMiOmarE 

https://youtube.com/watch?v=UMqR3JVIy2s&si=EnSIkaIECMiOmarE 

These short n sharp toths ended when BBC World moved to N8 studio and got longer when they relaunched in NBH

Also bring back sport and business stings during the bulletin?

This is not unique to World News, it's happened across BBC News bulletins over the last decade. The 1/6/10 headline sequences often have vox pops as well, and can take up to 2 minutes. I often get so bored of the headline sequence, if I've recorded the bulletin to watch later, I'll just skip the headline sequence altogether.

It's not only the BBC - ITV are just as bad, particularly on News at Ten. And foreign broadcasters do it, too. The Flemish VTM is especially bad - often every headline will have a SOT. It seems to be something of a worldwide trend.

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(07-02-2023, 01:40 PM)ALV Wrote:  Weekends (where 1000-0600 is simulcasted with NC, 20 hours of simulcast!)

How long have whole weekends (apart from Breakfast) been a simulcast? I remember years ago, whenever there was studio maintenance, it would be a big deal (at least on these forums) for World and 24 to join up for the weekend. The first half of each hour would be a rigid World-style bulletin, then the back half hours continued in the N24 style.

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RE: BBC News Channel/BBC World News Merger - DTV - 07-02-2023

(07-02-2023, 01:50 PM)Radio_man Wrote:  This is not unique to World News, it's happened across BBC News bulletins over the last decade. The 1/6/10 headline sequences often have vox pops as well, and can take up to 2 minutes. I often get so bored of the headline sequence, if I've recorded the bulletin to watch later, I'll just skip the headline sequence altogether.

I've actually been looking a bit into this recently because I was curious when it started and who started the trend - which I agree is very annoying. I know that they claim it is to act as a summary, but the 1999-style fast-paced headlines were so much more impactful and the inclusion of reporters, vox pops and 'we'll be asking...' are just so redundant and slow everything down.

Longer headline sequences began with network bulletins around 2004, with the preset thunderclap beds being dropped on big news days. Then, with the 2006 relaunch, the preset beds were dropped altogether and the lead story would get maybe 20 seconds or more, with the rest only about 7/8 seconds. The 2008 relaunch was when it really began to drag out on network bulletins, with the Six and Ten in particular typically reaching 90 seconds or longer. It's stayed this way since, with the lead story now often getting about 30 seconds or more to itself. At the time of the 1999 relaunch, the whole Nine O'Clock headline sequence + titles was 32 seconds!

On the channels, News channel headline sequences were still quick-paced (though including more stories) as late as 2011. They only really got the network-style elongations around the time of the March 2012 restructuring of the News channel hour - which was also when they cut down the half-past summary.

Worlds is a bit different - in terms of the 'white-and-red' bulletins, though not as short as they once were, TOTH sequences are still only about a minute including titles. The stranded programmes were where you often saw longer sequences, though this depended on the programme (WNA were always particularly short). But even as late as 2019, most kept it to just over a minute - it's only with the Covid simulcasts that World seemed to catch the bug.

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RE: BBC News Channel/BBC World News Merger - Kojak - 07-02-2023

(07-02-2023, 02:19 PM)DTV Wrote:  

(07-02-2023, 01:50 PM)Radio_man Wrote:  This is not unique to World News, it's happened across BBC News bulletins over the last decade. The 1/6/10 headline sequences often have vox pops as well, and can take up to 2 minutes. I often get so bored of the headline sequence, if I've recorded the bulletin to watch later, I'll just skip the headline sequence altogether.

I've actually been looking a bit into this recently because I was curious when it started and who started the trend - which I agree is very annoying. I know that they claim it is to act as a summary, but the 1999-style fast-paced headlines were so much more impactful and the inclusion of reporters, vox pops and 'we'll be asking...' are just so redundant and slow everything down.

Longer headline sequences began with network bulletins around 2004, with the preset thunderclap beds being dropped on big news days. Then, with the 2006 relaunch, the preset beds were dropped altogether and the lead story would get maybe 20 seconds or more, with the rest only about 7/8 seconds. The 2008 relaunch was when it really began to drag out on network bulletins, with the Six and Ten in particular typically reaching 90 seconds or longer. It's stayed this way since, with the lead story now often getting about 30 seconds or more to itself. At the time of the 1999 relaunch, the whole Nine O'Clock headline sequence + titles was 32 seconds!

On the channels, News channel headline sequences were still quick-paced (though including more stories) as late as 2011. They only really got the network-style elongations around the time of the March 2012 restructuring of the News channel hour - which was also when they cut down the half-past summary.

Worlds is a bit different - in terms of the 'white-and-red' bulletins, though not as short as they once were, TOTH sequences are still only about a minute including titles. The stranded programmes were where you often saw longer sequences, though this depended on the programme (WNA were always particularly short). But even as late as 2019, most kept it to just over a minute - it's only with the Covid simulcasts that World seemed to catch the bug.

I think it was actually Sky who started the trend of rambling headlines, when Sky News Today started in 2002:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_CCoUa4WK0 

Later that style of intro spread to Sky's other slots, and then around 2004, as you say, the BBC started to do something similar.

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RE: BBC News Channel/BBC World News Merger - Radio_man - 07-02-2023

(07-02-2023, 02:06 PM)Kojak Wrote:  

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(07-02-2023, 01:40 PM)ALV Wrote:  Weekends (where 1000-0600 is simulcasted with NC, 20 hours of simulcast!)

How long have whole weekends (apart from Breakfast) been a simulcast? I remember years ago, whenever there was studio maintenance, it would be a big deal (at least on these forums) for World and 24 to join up for the weekend. The first half of each hour would be a rigid World-style bulletin, then the back half hours continued in the N24 style.

Whole weekends have been simulcast since 23rd December 2022, when World & the NC were simulcasting together for the entire Christmas & New Year period until 3rd January.
Although before this, weekend afternoons was the only shift left at weekends that was separate.

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RE: BBC News Channel/BBC World News Merger - thePineapple - 07-02-2023

(07-02-2023, 02:06 PM)Kojak Wrote:  

(07-02-2023, 01:50 PM)Radio_man Wrote:  This is not unique to World News, it's happened across BBC News bulletins over the last decade. The 1/6/10 headline sequences often have vox pops as well, and can take up to 2 minutes. I often get so bored of the headline sequence, if I've recorded the bulletin to watch later, I'll just skip the headline sequence altogether.

It's not only the BBC - ITV are just as bad, particularly on News at Ten. And foreign broadcasters do it, too. The Flemish VTM is especially bad - often every headline will have a SOT. It seems to be something of a worldwide trend.

It seems to have only infiltrated TV though - just listened back to the Radio 4's Six O' Clock News headlines and they lasted 66 seconds. And on a morning, Tina Daheley's Radio 2 bulletins have an almost criminally short sequence at 25 seconds, though that's a bit different.

I wonder why (at least BBC) radio haven't caught the bug.

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RE: BBC News Channel/BBC World News Merger - itsrobert - 07-02-2023

(07-02-2023, 02:19 PM)DTV Wrote:  

(07-02-2023, 01:50 PM)Radio_man Wrote:  This is not unique to World News, it's happened across BBC News bulletins over the last decade. The 1/6/10 headline sequences often have vox pops as well, and can take up to 2 minutes. I often get so bored of the headline sequence, if I've recorded the bulletin to watch later, I'll just skip the headline sequence altogether.

I've actually been looking a bit into this recently because I was curious when it started and who started the trend - which I agree is very annoying. I know that they claim it is to act as a summary, but the 1999-style fast-paced headlines were so much more impactful and the inclusion of reporters, vox pops and 'we'll be asking...' are just so redundant and slow everything down.

Longer headline sequences began with network bulletins around 2004, with the preset thunderclap beds being dropped on big news days. Then, with the 2006 relaunch, the preset beds were dropped altogether and the lead story would get maybe 20 seconds or more, with the rest only about 7/8 seconds. The 2008 relaunch was when it really began to drag out on network bulletins, with the Six and Ten in particular typically reaching 90 seconds or longer. It's stayed this way since, with the lead story now often getting about 30 seconds or more to itself. At the time of the 1999 relaunch, the whole Nine O'Clock headline sequence + titles was 32 seconds!

On the channels, News channel headline sequences were still quick-paced (though including more stories) as late as 2011. They only really got the network-style elongations around the time of the March 2012 restructuring of the News channel hour - which was also when they cut down the half-past summary.

Worlds is a bit different - in terms of the 'white-and-red' bulletins, though not as short as they once were, TOTH sequences are still only about a minute including titles. The stranded programmes were where you often saw longer sequences, though this depended on the programme (WNA were always particularly short). But even as late as 2019, most kept it to just over a minute - it's only with the Covid simulcasts that World seemed to catch the bug.

[color=#333333][font='Open Sans', 'segoe ui', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]The long headline sequences were facilitated by changes in technology, specifically the introduction of SpotOn as the audio playout system. Both ITN and the BBC adopted SpotOn in 2004. Prior to that, BBC News used MiniDisc to play out the headline beds which obviously didn't lend itself to much flexibility. SpotOn allowed them this flexibility. At ITN, ITV News used 360 Systems Instant Replay as their audio playout console which again was pretty limited. SpotOn allowed them to randomly insert bongs over the headline bed which led to them adopting longer headline sequences. [/font][/color]

[color=#333333][font='Open Sans', 'segoe ui', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]As an aside, prior to Instant Replay, ITN used a mixture of 1/4" tape and a floppy disk based system called Sonifex Discart. I think the latter was heavily used in radio broadcasting, but it was something of a strange choice for TV News. It was primarily used for the daytime ITN News bulletins in the late 90s and Channel 5 News in its early days. The floppy disks couldn't store much data on them so they were only useful for short audio clips like voice overs, stings and bed loops.[/font][/color]

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RE: BBC News Channel/BBC World News Merger - neonemesis - 07-02-2023

Now that's the kinda cool insight I'm here for!

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RE: BBC News Channel/BBC World News Merger - Newsroom - 07-02-2023

(07-02-2023, 08:40 PM)neonemesis Wrote:  Now that's the kinda cool insight I'm here for!

Agree, it's people like Rob that bring 'wholesomeness' to any forum.

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RE: BBC News Channel/BBC World News Merger - itsrobert - 07-02-2023

(07-02-2023, 08:40 PM)neonemesis Wrote:  Now that's the kinda cool insight I'm here for!

Glad you found it useful! Unfortunately, I don't have any relevant photos from the BBC, but here are some ITN ones you might enjoy:

1/4" reel to reel tape machine in Studio 6 (Channel 4 News)



And here's the actual Instant Replay machine from Studio 4 that serviced the ITN/ITV News Channel:



Channel 4 News SpotOn:



Anyway, back to the BBC News merger!

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