TV Social Media Pres Gold - Printable Version

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+--- Thread: TV Social Media Pres Gold (/showthread.php?tid=19)

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RE: TV Social Media Pres Gold - i.h - 02-10-2023

(01-10-2023, 10:47 PM)Stooky Bill Wrote:  I wonder what application the IBA had in mind for dual language transmissions? The only place at the time that would be able to make use of it was S4C

Since it was an IBA test (and voiced by one of the IBA engineering announcement people) I wonder if they just wanted a real world test of the equipment they used - which IIRC was not identical to the BBC's.

Would they have used this for an early version of audio description, or would there be more efficient ways. I seem to remember our esteemed Technologist mentioning it somewhere.

Probably worth posting this video here - this channel is quite interesting (though he is fixated on Philips test card generators in particular), but this video shows a Philips NICAM encoder and he switches it into dual mode to see if a modern TV works with it at about 18 minutes in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVL3XjgDHrA&t=22s 

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RE: TV Social Media Pres Gold - Stooky Bill - 02-10-2023

Audio description is one use for it, as long as other viewers didn't mind watching the same programme in mono. Not really a long term solution especially when they were promoting stereo so much.

However it was an option looked at for AD as mentioned in here about the Audetel project that the IBAs successors were part in 1991

https://cordis.europa.eu/project/id/169#:~:text=The%20AUDETEL%20project%20aims%20to,elderly%20viewer%20might%20otherwise%20suffer 

AIUI a working Audetel system was developed, using VBI lines for the audio, but it wasn't cost effective and of course required a seperate set top box.

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RE: TV Social Media Pres Gold - Technologist - 02-10-2023

Phase 1 of Audetel had the target of NICAM as the delivery to the home - Using the 11Kbit/s auxilliary channel
- i think because the Broadcaster involved was ITV whose VBI for anciallry services was felt to be too small!
(the BBC had for some reasons refused to take part)

NICAM had an obvious probelm - it was not carried through a Regional centre (either BBC or Itv)
and and not obvious one - if you exercised the two top bits in the 10 bit signal some NICAM decoders made rude sounds in the Programme sound!
(A large number of rented TV Sest were recalled to be modified!)
and a subtle one - it was not tied to Video pulses!

Having got the Principles both technical and editorial sorted out ...

The BBC was reapproached by the ITC as Project managers to take part in phase 2 - which ended up with Pilot services
the BBC was a lot more interested (I think because different people were asked)
and so took part ..... and teletext was used -

Unsually for a EU funded project two methods of play out were allowed/used
ITV played out a File like subtitles which had the packets as pre encoded CELP audio
on the complemnetary line (22) to the subtitles on line 335
the BBC used a real time CELP encoder - Audio in CELP in Teletext out
The BBC aslo had far more complex techniques for combining Teletext
and also could use a line pair (20/333) for subtlkes thus could put AD muxed with subtitles!
(actaully if you think about it AD is rarely active when people are speaking
and a subtitles is a one shot say 4 packets for say 5 secs of programe dialogue
so subtitle packets are not there most of the time)

Subtitles got through the broadcaster infrastructure .....so this was good!
and BBC and ITV did a few hundred AD hours in the pilot!

And it was standardised in sect 6.7 of ETS 300 708
https://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_en/300700_300799/300708/01.02.01_60/en_300708v010201p.pdf 

It used a stand alone decoder - made by Portset- this handed the Fade byte (and I think Pan)
but did not have reciever mix control but we wished it had!!!! Hence UK DTT having it!
It also to be a universal box had outputs which were remodulted UHF, Scart, Audio phonos and 3.5mm hedphones
all a bit too complex ....
With DTT coming rapdily over the Horizon it was decided that AD coudl be added to a normal TV / STB
and thus this was the route to go.... and UK DTT would not have teletext!

In the broadcasters infrastructure the BBC were going SDI with emebed audio for playout
so the AD on one track and the control tone on the other so Audio 3 &4 just whizzed through without anyone messing it up!
(Itv were still AES3 - which gave them some problems
and all AD police units etc needed both Audio and video Inputs and outputs!!)
Control tones meant that it worked as stereo signal over compressed routes!

After Audetel CELP coding was used for Talkback
- ITV used it for the breakfast contractor talkback over NICAM - but only 8 bit!!
and the BBC used it for News talkback over air after a incident where mobile phone network overloaed
but the mobile network got better so it was dicontinued.
BBC Wales had 128Kbit/sec APTX over Teletext for Welsh sound over radio links!
........... Some of fun I had in the 1990s!

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RE: TV Social Media Pres Gold - lookoutwales - 03-10-2023

Rare spotting of BBC2's Christmas symbol for 1976 - this particular junction leads into a repeat of a feature-length compilation marking the 40th anniversary of BBC Television.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vp-Uy5R2Skk 

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RE: TV Social Media Pres Gold - Spencer - 03-10-2023

(03-10-2023, 12:37 AM)lookoutwales Wrote:  Rare spotting of BBC2's Christmas symbol for 1976 - this particular junction leads into a repeat of a feature-length compilation marking the 40th anniversary of BBC Television.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vp-Uy5R2Skk 

Ironically the swirling multicoloured 2 logo has very similar vibes to the BBC’s 100th anniversary logo.

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RE: TV Social Media Pres Gold - lookoutwales - 06-10-2023

A couple more Aussie closedowns (from Western Australia, to be precise) - in both cases, making some stringent (and arguably futile) copyright warnings, presumably aimed at those with VCRs. In GWN's case, they were still making similar disclaimers in the late 90s.

https://youtu.be/F5mKtpoRJow?si=3FvRjXQEInEkLZ0X 

https://youtu.be/QFLOMKUX7cQ?si=fhsPS3bbiyMDG_Of 

Apologies for the stretch-o-vision, BTW.

Perhaps it's worth noting that Nine's Sydney and Melbourne stations were on air 24/7 as early as 1976, usually showing all-night movies. Brisbane followed suit around 1980, then Perth two years later, and finally, Adelaide in 1985.

By contrast, Seven's Perth affiliate (the market leader) was still going off air as late as 2001.

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RE: TV Social Media Pres Gold - Stooky Bill - 07-10-2023

Some BBC1 North continuity from 1975. The announcer sounds more southern than the one in London, they opt out late, put a slide up instead of the globe and then crash the news

And some people say presentation is too slick these days :-D
https://twitter.com/tellytvbox/status/1710546297499877807?t=OpBkS3wTUKQ5U_XgmcMRuQ&s=19 

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RE: TV Social Media Pres Gold - lookoutwales - 08-10-2023

Not quite earth-shattering but quite a rare out-of-vision closedown from Thames with Peter Marshall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k9HAGu86v0 

IIRC, as the 80s wore on, Thames would gradually cut back on their use of IVC away from overnights.

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RE: TV Social Media Pres Gold - Steve in Pudsey - 08-10-2023

Almost surprised he didn't make a gag about Peter Lewis being on Thames

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RE: TV Social Media Pres Gold - Bluecortina - 08-10-2023

(08-10-2023, 12:29 PM)Steve in Pudsey Wrote:  Almost surprised he didn't make a gag about Peter Lewis being on Thames

Further to a discussion on the ‘Breakdown’ thread a few weeks ago, note how they cut the music track short to make sure they’re off air before the top of the hour (and going into the next quarter hour) to avoid unnecessary penalty payments for Union staff.

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