Challenge TV - Printable Version

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RE: Challenge TV - Worzel - 13-08-2023

(13-08-2023, 10:20 PM)SuperSajuuk Wrote:  I've always been very surprised that Challenge [or some other broadcaster] doesn't attempt to try and find the original recordings for most of these older game shows [FF, Millionaire, to name a few] that got butchered by previous owners and re-edited them for modern uses.

I remember how we had to put up with the dodgy Millionaire edits (Series 5 onwards) where Virgin Media hacked away at so much of the contestant chatter that episodes had to be merged to make them hour-long broadcasts, which broke up the start and end of actual episodes. Which meant when we got the Series 1-4 broadcasts, it was a welcome difference where the only edits were to the phone number and the Millionaire break sting logo, due primarily to Challenge knowing there was no reason to cut out everything randomly.

I get we probably will never see half of Bob Monkhouse hosting FF due to most of the episodes being lost, but would be great if all the Max Bygraves and Les Dennis stuff was re-edited. It'd also give them a chance to re-air many of the random gaffes from answers given by contestants which are lost to the ages [such as the one where a contestant gave an answer of "brothel" for "a place where you wouldn't expect to meet a nun": the most you see is a short burst of laughter before the titles roll at the start of Family Misfortunes if you find a clip of it online on YouTube]

As I recall when Challenge showed the snake charmer episode of Catchphrase, in later airings I'm pretty sure they edited out Mr Chips' walking stick or at least did something to it which spoils the whole moment on the repeats and anyone young and new to the episode wouldn't understand the laughter.

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RE: Challenge TV - Neil Jones - 13-08-2023

(13-08-2023, 10:03 PM)WillPS Wrote:  No games were removed. The main edit which were there on Challenge TV from the beginning were the end monologues - in fact the first time I'd seen these in years was when the first 3 series were added to Britbox (I don't think they've added the other 3, sadly).

Unfortunately the Ed Tudor-Pole episodes were not shown for a while and when they were eventually re-acquired during the VMTV era they butchered them - forcing an additional break in abruptly and cutting the zone moves right down. I think the Christmas specials suffered similarly. There are a few games from these episodes where the in game clock jumps.

Thank you, I knew there was more to that.
The end episode monologue edits I've only ever seen seem like that (besides original transmission probably) so I'm used to them.

Virgin made a right hack of the Tudor-Pole series which included moving the break points, adding the extra one as you say (no consistency in any of this by the way - sometimes the extra break was in any old random place (even right before a game) and I do remember the only other logical place for it was prior to the Dome, which they did use) and various other cutty cutty snip snip.

VIrgin did go after the Christmas specials as well, even the O'Brien ones. I dare say the main series wasn't too far away from being butchered either.

(13-08-2023, 10:20 PM)SuperSajuuk Wrote:  I've always been very surprised that Challenge [or some other broadcaster] doesn't attempt to try and find the original recordings for most of these older game shows [FF, Millionaire, to name a few] that got butchered by previous owners and re-edited them for modern uses.

The impression has been painted for quite some time now they don't seem to have much in the way of cash/budget. It probably costs them to get new files from ITV to replace all these Virgin issues and I dare say that would have the knock on effect of screwing up the advert timings if things end up in the wrong clock hour for example if you just swap a file out for a longer one, and Ofcom will expect you to either fix it yourself in other hours, or report the problem to them and watch you throw yourself on your sword.

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RE: Challenge TV - James2001 - 13-08-2023

It's the former VMTV Sky channels in general really that keep using old copies, they still use 14:9 copies of a lot of shows from the 00s, even ones that were actually made for the channels themselves where you'd think they'd have easy access to the 16:9 masters.

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RE: Challenge TV - WillPS - 14-08-2023

(13-08-2023, 10:20 PM)SuperSajuuk Wrote:  I remember how we had to put up with the dodgy Millionaire edits (Series 5 onwards) where Virgin Media hacked away at so much of the contestant chatter that episodes had to be merged to make them hour-long broadcasts, which broke up the start and end of actual episodes. Which meant when we got the Series 1-4 broadcasts, it was a welcome difference where the only edits were to the phone number and the Millionaire break sting logo, due primarily to Challenge knowing there was no reason to cut out everything randomly.

AIUI the 'Classic Millionaire' compilation format was a Celador/Sony creation rather than a VMTV cut and stick effort. The same format appeared on other channels, notably True/Sony/'Great' Entertainment.

I don't doubt that Virgin then edited those edits for time though.

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RE: Challenge TV - James2001 - 14-08-2023

I wasn't really thinking of that, more things like Most Haunted and the Dave Spikey Bullseye that were made for VMTV where they still pull out the 14:9 copies.

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RE: Challenge TV - WillPS - 14-08-2023

(14-08-2023, 12:20 AM)James2001 Wrote:  I wasn't really thinking of that, more things like Most Haunted and the Dave Spikey Bullseye that were made for VMTV where they still pull out the 14:9 copies.

Sorry, I was replying to an earlier post. I've edited my post to insert a quote now to make this clearer.

We don't know what Sky received from Living TV Group at the point they were acquired - it's plausible the only playout assets were digital.

Worth noting that even though it was initially aired on Challenge the Spikey series is still owned by ITV in exactly the same manner as the original series; it wasn't even a Challenge commission initially - Granada produced it for an intended ITV2/4 slot then got cold feet. You can safely presume that ITV hold master copies of that series in 16:9, and of all the original ones unedited in 4:3. It's entirely plausible that Flextech (and their successor/s) never had copies of the Spikey series in any format other than the 14:9 ones which they've always showed.

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RE: Challenge TV - tellyblues - 14-08-2023

(13-08-2023, 10:31 PM)Worzel Wrote:  As I recall when Challenge showed the snake charmer episode of Catchphrase, in later airings I'm pretty sure they edited out Mr Chips' walking stick or at least did something to it which spoils the whole moment on the repeats and anyone young and new to the episode wouldn't understand the laughter.

Yeah, the censored version doesn't have the animation of Mr Chips' arm but it's still funny because of the winking.

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RE: Challenge TV - James2001 - 14-08-2023

I'm pretty sure that edit of the "snake charmer" animation is nothing to do with Challenge, and is how the broadcast episode's always been, the uncut version's only ever been shown in outtake programmes. The animation's clearly been re-rendered to make the "clean" version, which shows it was done by the show's production team, Challenge wouldn't be able to do it that neatly by just re-editing the video.

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RE: Challenge TV - bilky asko - 14-08-2023

(14-08-2023, 12:10 AM)WillPS Wrote:  AIUI the 'Classic Millionaire' compilation format was a Celador/Sony creation rather than a VMTV cut and stick effort. The same format appeared on other channels, notably True/Sony/'Great' Entertainment.

I don't doubt that Virgin then edited those edits for time though.

Indeed - weren't the Classic Millionaire episodes initially aired on ITV in a daytime slot?

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RE: Challenge TV - Neil Jones - 14-08-2023

(14-08-2023, 06:18 AM)James2001 Wrote:  I'm pretty sure that edit of the "snake charmer" animation is nothing to do with Challenge, and is how the broadcast episode's always been, the uncut version's only ever been shown in outtake programmes. The animation's clearly been re-rendered to make the "clean" version, which shows it was done by the show's production team, Challenge wouldn't be able to do it that neatly by just re-editing the video.

They used to make material especially for the Christmas tape of the ITV companies (and the BBC) back in the day (after they'd filled them up with bloopers/outtakes and Denis Norden and friends had later raided them) and while by 1995 the Christmas tape was beginning to come to an end, its plausible somebody saw the potential to make it a bit ruder and swap out the animation.

So in other words - I feel the "clean" version is what was originally recorded (anything "rude" is what you imply is going on) and the implied rude version was edited later. In my opinion.

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