BBC One Nightlight - Printable Version
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RE: BBC One Nightlight - interestednovice - 08-11-2023
(08-11-2023, 04:16 PM)Jimbo2022 Wrote: Thanks for clarification
So why does it vanish at night when BBC news us simulcast and nit reappear on Saturday until 1000 etc?
Possibly just because it would “cover up” the BBC NC lower thirds and look a mess?
Or perhaps technical reasons, where BBC One does effectively “close down” overnight and the simulcast is “run by” BBC News, so play out is a bit different to normal as the feed is produced straight from NC and just put straight to air by BBC One?
Or even perhaps platform rules, where Sky especially may not be happy with a captioned channel 24/7, so they have to have some hours without. They deliberately make these the least watched overnight hours, perhaps. Rather like BBC Three’s phantom existence on satellite after it closed.
RE: BBC One Nightlight - Jimbo2022 - 08-11-2023
(08-11-2023, 05:05 PM)interestednovice Wrote: Possibly just because it would “cover up” the BBC NC lower thirds and look a mess?
Or perhaps technical reasons, where BBC One does effectively “close down” overnight and the simulcast is “run by” BBC News, so play out is a bit different to normal as the feed is produced straight from NC and just put straight to air by BBC One?
Or even perhaps platform rules, where Sky especially may not be happy with a captioned channel 24/7, so they have to have some hours without. They deliberately make these the least watched overnight hours, perhaps. Rather like BBC Three’s phantom existence on satellite after it closed.
Yes I see. It theoretically means the NC simulcast counts as a programme proper under the rules? Strictly is used at weekends it seems as there may be a rule that it cannot be a simulcast every day without something else in a 7 day period.
We already know that inky a promo going out does not count so my theory further up about strictly T&C's may be a reason, but it may actually be to enable something original to be available normally to fulfill that rule?
Still no notice on any of the other 8 feeds yet.
RE: BBC One Nightlight - interestednovice - 08-11-2023
I think Strictly is more about small print for voting which they must show for regulatory reasons. They could put a caption on the top half of the screen and have the voting info on the bottom if they really wanted, but I suspect it’s easier to just dismiss it for one programme.
The NC simulcast would be original content every day, even though it is simulcast, so that probably meets any quota requirement on its own.
(08-11-2023, 06:20 PM)Jimbo2022 Wrote: Still no notice on any of the other 8 feeds yet.
I do wonder why this is.
Do they just assume everybody watches BBC One at least occasionally?!
RE: BBC One Nightlight - Jimbo2022 - 08-11-2023
(08-11-2023, 08:23 PM)interestednovice Wrote: I think Strictly is more about small print for voting which they must show for regulatory reasons. They could put a caption on the top half of the screen and have the voting info on the bottom if they really wanted, but I suspect it’s easier to just dismiss it for one programme.Thanks. So my original assumption on T&Csbis probably right in that case.
The NC simulcast would be original content every day, even though it is simulcast, so that probably meets any quota requirement on its own.
I do wonder why this is.
Do they just assume everybody watches BBC One at least occasionally?!
It's on bbc1 at least because it's more popular than the others, and on Freesat out the default launch channel IS BBC1.
On my SD box which I have to check it started up on bbc1 once the channels loaded But it still does not make sense the other 8 are left as if nothing has happened even though they are national services
RE: BBC One Nightlight - interestednovice - 08-11-2023
It could well be that the caption-generating uses certain resources not easily available in playout so they don’t want to bother for the others.
Remember that BBC SD channels are now downscaled from HD - so, to ensure HD viewers are not seeing the caption erroneously, the caption has to be inserted “downstream” of the normal playout. Potentially even using a temporary additional SD playout chain that they wouldn’t normally have to bother with.
RE: BBC One Nightlight - Jimbo2022 - 09-11-2023
Must admit I thought that feed had always been a downscaled hd feed
The playout us definitely the old bbc1 HD network feed, as in 5 Jan the HD slate appeared for a split second
These days the timings seem right so you don't see multiswitching.
If the BBC do carry a skate saying Channel Closed in 8 January, not sure how long that will stay in air
Interesting times ahead.
RE: BBC One Nightlight - interestednovice - 09-11-2023
Interesting times, indeed!
Originally, BBC One HD launched in a hurry so it was set up with new playout and the entire infrastructure was as if an entirely new channel was being launched. Later on, around a year after launch, SD switched to being a downscaled version of HD output. Not long after, the original nations variations launched. “BBC One Network” (SD) then no longer existed as a separately produced service, as a downscaler simply produced the feed. BBC One HD had a DOG added via a caption generator downstream of the split so only HD viewers saw it. A similar approach may be being used now, with a basic graphic generator.
Of course, in those days, BBC One HD network always had the red screen in England; regional variations also were produced differently as the signal physically when to the region (carrying network feed) and back to coding and mux (so was always sent “through the region” in a way that it isn’t now - with opting in and out physically happening at the region site). As part of the preparation for the HD regions upgrade, play out was changed so that regional opting is now controlled by a “switch” in playout instead, but regions can remotely control the switch - allowing them to maintain some autonomy if an emergency opt is needed. So there is no longer a need for the feed to go via the region and back again before coding and mux.
I say all that to point out that things have certainly been changing throughout, but not to the point ordinary viewers would have noticed. The DOG on BBC One HD is long gone though, thankfully!
RE: BBC One Nightlight - Jimbo2022 - 09-11-2023
(09-11-2023, 12:47 AM)interestednovice Wrote: Interesting times, indeed!Thanks for that. Back when bbc1 first appeared in Astra in May 1998, we found out once Sky Digital launched, that UK today replaced regional news. That was also on news 24 I think, but not always.
Originally, BBC One HD launched in a hurry so it was set up with new playout and the entire infrastructure was as if an entirely new channel was being launched. Later on, around a year after launch, SD switched to being a downscaled version of HD output. Not long after, the original nations variations launched. “BBC One Network” (SD) then no longer existed as a separately produced service, as a downscaler simply produced the feed. BBC One HD had a DOG added via a caption generator downstream of the split so only HD viewers saw it. A similar approach may be being used now, with a basic graphic generator.
Of course, in those days, BBC One HD network always had the red screen in England; regional variations also were produced differently as the signal physically when to the region (carrying network feed) and back to coding and mux (so was always sent “through the region” in a way that it isn’t now - with opting in and out physically happening at the region site). As part of the preparation for the HD regions upgrade, play out was changed so that regional opting is now controlled by a “switch” in playout instead, but regions can remotely control the switch - allowing them to maintain some autonomy if an emergency opt is needed. So there is no longer a need for the feed to go via the region and back again before coding and mux.
I say all that to point out that things have certainly been changing throughout, but not to the point ordinary viewers would have noticed. The DOG on BBC One HD is long gone though, thankfully!
I later found out that in analogue 14:9 playout, the regions opted out if the original BBC1 satellite feed with UK today on it. North West opted back early by mistake once.
Once regions in SD launched in 2002, London replaced network, but network I understand took news 24 in the local windows. North West opted back early once and it was a copy if news 24 with a sudden switch to bbc1 output
That feed still existed for bbc1 hd with the news 24 simulcasts during local windows hidden by the red slate but rest if output was the same.
Now BBC1 Nightlight is a downscaled BBC1 HD Network feed with a separate switch to the upgrade red slate. On the 1300 news, you get sport headlines, on 1800 and 2200 you see London headlines. But that I understand us still network feed
If nobody opted out, I thought BBC news +Spirtsday) is carried at 1349, and London for other two bulletins, but with no oot out you would still get Spirtsday.
With the north continuity between 1900-2300, there is I believe 2 BBC1 network feeds. Main network, and North network, which both actually take Spirtsday in each local window (except breakfast which is London), and Sunday Politics which varies
Is that still the case? If not, what would now be seen if nobody opted out for local news?
Also, when the SD feeds close in 8 January, there will still exist a network BBC1. There has to be. In the 1989s, South East, London and Oxford gitvthe sustaining service with Newsroom South East
If bbc1 network ceased to exist that would be odd given its never nit existed - if you see what I mean.
Thanks
RE: BBC One Nightlight - Stooky Bill - 09-11-2023
(09-11-2023, 12:47 AM)interestednovice Wrote: Of course, in those days, BBC One HD network always had the red screen in England; regional variations also were produced differently as the signal physically when to the region (carrying network feed) and back to coding and mux (so was always sent “through the region” in a way that it isn’t now - with opting in and out physically happening at the region site). As part of the preparation for the HD regions upgrade, play out was changed so that regional opting is now controlled by a “switch” in playout instead, but regions can remotely control the switch - allowing them to maintain some autonomy if an emergency opt is needed. So there is no longer a need for the feed to go via the region and back again before coding and mux.Tbats not quite correct. The opts take place at coding and mux. Each region presses a button to put themselves to air as they always have but that takes place elsewhere.
BBC1 does still go through the region however as its needed either side of the opt outs so the galleries can cleanly opt in/out. That's why, in regions with only SD facilities the picture quality of BBC1 HD for a bit before and after each regional item - they're taking BBC1 through their SD gallery. The network feed is down converted going into their router.
Incidently coding and mux also took over the adding of any channel logo bugs (or DOGS if you must). They're all added downstream of playout but triggered by them. I'm not sure but I think the BBC1 SD overlays are being added in the same way.
RE: BBC One Nightlight - Stooky Bill - 09-11-2023
(09-11-2023, 01:23 AM)Jimbo2022 Wrote: With the north continuity between 1900-2300, there is I believe 2 BBC1 network feeds. Main network, and North network, which both actually take Spirtsday in each local window (except breakfast which is London), and Sunday Politics which variesYes there's still a 'network' or 'sustaining' BBC1, and as you say there's actually two as there's a north one too.
Is that still the case? If not, what would now be seen if nobody opted out for local news?
Also, when the SD feeds close in 8 January, there will still exist a network BBC1. There has to be. In the 1989s, South East, London and Oxford gitvthe sustaining service with Newsroom South East
If bbc1 network ceased to exist that would be odd given its never nit existed - if you see what I mean.
What they carry when I can't remember. It's still London (or South East) for Breakfast and a selected region for Politics/current affairs. It always used to be the news channel for the news opt outs, it might be London sometimes since they moved into the national studio (that might have been a temporary thing)
If a region doesn't opt or fails during it then you'll see whatever's on that sustaining network version. However, every TV and radio service goes through coding and mux and they can replace any region with another. So if a region can't do an opt and they know in advance they can have another one nearby go out in it's place. Handy functionality, especially during covid.
They also have the ability to join regions, so if a programme is going out in several they don't all have to be crewed just to put it out
So playout put out 4 (I think) versions of BBC1 - sustaining, sustaining north, SD nightlight, and HD. Yes as far as I know the old HD version with the red caption still exists, but only appears on iPlayer.