Ken Bruce to leave BBC Radio 2 show after 31 years - Printable Version
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RE: Ken Bruce to leave BBC Radio 2 show after 31 years - Brekkie - 07-03-2023
(06-03-2023, 10:07 PM)James2001 Wrote: Look at many long running game shows and how many of them stay the same as their original incarnation for long. These things are nearly always tweaked to iron out kinks and improve things, I can't see how this will be any different.Indeed was wondering if the Popmaster format on day one is the format we come to know?
(07-03-2023, 09:50 AM)chris Wrote:The latter two pretty much though think The Weakest Link tweaked the end game and The Chase added minus offers a few years in - initially used very rarely but now used almost daily.(07-03-2023, 09:27 AM)Alessi Wrote: Which long running ones changed?
Millionaire, Deal or No Deal, Pointless, Radio 2’s Couch Potatoes - invariably they get tweaked over the years.
The Weakest Link and The Chase are the same format as launch, I think?
RE: Ken Bruce to leave BBC Radio 2 show after 31 years - Alessi - 07-03-2023
(07-03-2023, 10:07 AM)Brekkie Wrote:(06-03-2023, 10:07 PM)James2001 Wrote: Look at many long running game shows and how many of them stay the same as their original incarnation for long. These things are nearly always tweaked to iron out kinks and improve things, I can't see how this will be any different.Indeed was wondering if the Popmaster format on day one is the format we come to know?
(07-03-2023, 09:50 AM)chris Wrote: Millionaire, Deal or No Deal, Pointless, Radio 2’s Couch Potatoes - invariably they get tweaked over the years.The latter two pretty much though think The Weakest Link tweaked the end game and The Chase added minus offers a few years in - initially used very rarely but now used almost daily.
The Weakest Link and The Chase are the same format as launch, I think?
Although those examples were still really popular concepts from the start (the TV ones anyway) before the tweaks were introduced.
I'd be interested in any examples of something which really didn't work at all at the start that was then rescued and became a successful format.
RE: Ken Bruce to leave BBC Radio 2 show after 31 years - Spencer - 07-03-2023
(06-03-2023, 08:25 PM)Alessi Wrote:So a bit like Sidney Bernstein’s ‘even numbers only’ numbering of Granada’s studios.(06-03-2023, 07:58 PM)Spencer Wrote: To be fair, I never really understood why the questions on Popmaster were worth three points each, or six for bonuses. It would have been simpler for them to be worth one or two respectively.
And as an occasional, casual listener, the scoring for Champions League Popmaster always struck me as somewhat Numberwang-esque.
Maybe just so scores sounded better than they were. Even if you just got one question correct, 3 sounds better than 1.
A bit like when a hotel starts its first floor of rooms at 100 - it sounds grander.
RE: Ken Bruce to leave BBC Radio 2 show after 31 years - James2001 - 07-03-2023
Bullseye? The first series is very different to how it became.
RE: Ken Bruce to leave BBC Radio 2 show after 31 years - DavidWhitfield - 07-03-2023
There have been minor tweaks to The Chase since the launch series of ten episodes back in summer 2009 - the table between the Chaser and the player used to have one extra step to it, and during the Final Chase, they added in the 'add on another step to the players' score' rule in the event of a 'pushback' when the Chaser was currently on zero (previously, Bradley would simply say 'we can't push the Chaser back' and move on).
RE: Ken Bruce to leave BBC Radio 2 show after 31 years - tellyblues - 07-03-2023
Will have to wait and see how different it is when it returns but the machine on Moneyball may be different from the first series and apparently the game is now being played by couples so don't know how that will affect things.
RE: Ken Bruce to leave BBC Radio 2 show after 31 years - DavidWhitfield - 08-03-2023
Having listened with interest for three days, and having thought about it in much more detail than is really reasonable, I must admit that - try as I might to give it the benefit of the doubt - I really do think there are serious flaws with this quiz - the questions are perfectly fine, but the scoring and needless complication of a joker really don't help its chances.
The quiz starts with Gary telling you that the maximum score is 65 points for playing the perfect game, but this means you generally finish every game feeling as though you've done terribly even when you really haven't. I attempted to play along and got half of the questions right in one round yesterday and I still ended up getting a single digit score as I didn't get enough consecutive right answers to build up to the higher points. Getting half of the questions right but only scoring 7/65 - and feeling like a dunce as a result - doesn't seem like a very good scoring system to me and doesn't exactly make you look forward to playing again tomorrow. (Perhaps I'm just bitter at having done poorly...)
Moreover, the nature of the scoring system can mean that one single slip up is calamitous, and you're disproportionately 'punished' for a wrong answer if it happens in the middle of your game. If you forget about the convoluted joker element and just think in terms of standard points, if you were to answer nine questions right and only miss one, you would score 45 points if you missed Q1 or Q10, as you'd still be able to build up all the way from one-point to nine-point questions, however, if you 'break the chain' of ascending points in the middle of your game (by getting Q5 or Q6 wrong), you immediately lose the ability to win more than five points in any one question, and your maximum score would be 25 points. You've lost out on twenty points there simply because you happened to get Q5 wrong rather than Q1. Is that a fair/sensible system? Seems like a real flaw in the format to me.
The way the scoring works is not only arguably much less fair than Popmaster, but it's a lot more difficult to keep track of. The 'increasing points until you get one wrong' format means that - unless you've got the exact same ones right/wrong as the player, you end up playing for a different number of points for that question and it can be confusing hearing Gary telling them "this one's for four points" when you're actually playing for, say, two points. The joker further complicates this. You can be playing for two points while the player on air is playing for seven points, which they play the joker on and end up winning (or losing) fourteen points for.
Ultimately, you need the quiz to be fool-proof; people are listening while at work, busy in the kitchen, driving... you need to be able to play along with ease. I'm really not sure you can say that about Ten To The Top and that seems to be a fatal flaw to me.
(Well done if you bothered to read all that.)
RE: Ken Bruce to leave BBC Radio 2 show after 31 years - chris - 08-03-2023
(08-03-2023, 02:01 PM)DavidWhitfield Wrote: Having listened with interest for three days, and having thought about it in much more detail than is really reasonable, I must admit that - try as I might to give it the benefit of the doubt - I really do think there are serious flaws with this quiz - the questions are perfectly fine, but the scoring and needless complication of a joker really don't help its chances.
The quiz starts with Gary telling you that the maximum score is 65 points for playing the perfect game, but this means you generally finish every game feeling as though you've done terribly even when you really haven't. I attempted to play along and got half of the questions right in one round yesterday and I still ended up getting a single digit score as I didn't get enough consecutive right answers to build up to the higher points. Getting half of the questions right but only scoring 7/65 - and feeling like a dunce as a result - doesn't seem like a very good scoring system to me and doesn't exactly make you look forward to playing again tomorrow. (Perhaps I'm just bitter at having done poorly...)
Moreover, the nature of the scoring system can mean that one single slip up is calamitous, and you're disproportionately 'punished' for a wrong answer if it happens in the middle of your game. If you forget about the convoluted joker element and just think in terms of standard points, if you were to answer nine questions right and only miss one, you would score 45 points if you missed Q1 or Q10, as you'd still be able to build up all the way from one-point to nine-point questions, however, if you 'break the chain' of ascending points in the middle of your game (by getting Q5 or Q6 wrong) , you immediately lose the ability to win more than five points in any one question, and your maximum score would be 25 points. You've lost out on twenty points there simply because you happened to get Q5 wrong rather than Q1. Is that a fair/sensible system? Seems like a real flaw in the format to me.
The way the scoring works is not only arguably much less fair than Popmaster, but it's a lot more difficult to keep track of. The 'increasing points until you get one wrong' format means that - unless you've got the exact same ones right/wrong as the player, you end up playing for a different number of points for that question and it can be confusing hearing Gary telling them "this one's for four points" when you're actually playing for, say, two points. The joker further complicates this. You can be playing for two points while the player on air is playing for seven points, which they play the joker on and end up wining (or losing) fourteen points for.
Ultimately, you need the quiz to be fool-proof; people are listening while at work, busy in the kitchen, driving... you need to be able to play along with ease. I'm really not sure you can say that about Ten To The Top and that seems to be a fatal flaw to me.
(Well done if you bothered to read all that.)
I think you’re spot on.
RE: Ken Bruce to leave BBC Radio 2 show after 31 years - VMPhil - 08-03-2023
Are the Ken Bruce features like Tracks of My Years and Record of the Week continuing into Vernon Kay's new programme? I wonder how long they'll last as he makes the show more of his own - including any sort of pop quiz.
RE: Ken Bruce to leave BBC Radio 2 show after 31 years - Alessi - 08-03-2023
(08-03-2023, 04:04 PM)VMPhil Wrote: Are the Ken Bruce features like Tracks of My Years and Record of the Week continuing into Vernon Kay's new programme? I wonder how long they'll last as he makes the show more of his own - including any sort of pop quiz.
I believe those have already been continuing with Gary Davies...not sure if they will during Vernon's reign.