Switching issues with BBC channels in early 00s - Printable Version
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Switching issues with BBC channels in early 00s - Josh - 26-01-2023
Was looking around at old forum posts on various sites and came across these posts...
https://www.tvliveforum.com/showthread.php?tid=81&pid=61838#pid61838
https://tvforum.uk/tvhome/bbc-three-cbbc-problems-9258
...about there being issues with the 18:58 switch between CBBC/BBC Three & CBeebies/BBC Four when the digital channels initially launched in the early 00s, more specifically CBBC content appearing on BBC Three.
It mentions that may have been a period of time where the channels closed down earlier than usual (18:45 or 18:50) to help ensure there we no issues with switching. Does anyone know when these issues may have taken place and why? Would be interested with insight into this! :)
RE: Switching issues with BBC channels in early 00s - Stooky Bill - 26-01-2023
I remember in the very early days there was one evening when the system that switched between the children's and non-children's channels failed and BBC Choice and or BBC4 went out on Cbeebies and or CBBC. Think it was quite a while too. After that the system and procedures were improved and it never happened again AFAIK.
Something that was either there at the start, or was brought in after that incident was a further precaution whereby if the children's EPG numbers were still active at 9pm the channels would shut down so nothing post-watershed went out. I don't know if that was an automatic process or whether it was just the network directors going into a breakdown
The system now is quite advanced and handles several time switches a day (BBC Alba and Scotland switch on and off on DTT too), it's also monitored and checked to make sure it's taken place on every output
RE: Switching issues with BBC channels in early 00s - Deejay - 26-01-2023
They shared presentation areas (and still do). If you were the director looking after the children’s channels you’d also be looking after BBC Three and Four from the same positions as CBeebies/CBBC. There was a dynamic switch that took place at the actual service providers (I.e. downstream of the BBC) which changed the channel numbers so that the output from the pres suites stopped being available on CBeebies and became available on BBC Three. Etc. It was supposed to be fully automatic and happen at a fixed clock time.
But in the early days it went wrong a few times and the BBC was rightly sensitive about some of the content that was being promoted for the evenings schedule being seen still, because of the error, on the children’s channels. The engineer had a bank of off air boxes for DSAT and DTT to check that the children’s channels had gone off air and Three/Four had become receivable correctly.
Yes. I do have vague memories of the switching interval being increased, I’m not sure it was ever 15 minutes but I may be wrong.
These days it’s about a minute I think. Incidentally, if you’re directing BBC Three’s CatchUp, and you’re on at 7pm, you’ll see the end of CBBC on your network output, then the slides, fade to black etc while the switch happens, before you go on air.
RE: Switching issues with BBC channels in early 00s - Stooky Bill - 26-01-2023
(26-01-2023, 09:41 AM)Deejay Wrote: They shared presentation areas (and still do). If you were the director looking after the children’s channels you’d also be looking after BBC Three and Four from the same positions
These days it’s about a minute I think. Incidentally, if you’re directing BBC Three’s CatchUp, and you’re on at 7pm, you’ll see the end of CBBC on your network output, then the slides, fade to black etc while the switch happens, before you go on air.
They're the same presentation areas now but for some reason seperate playout chains. That could be a legacy of when one of the channels was extended for the Olympics so both BBC3 and CBBC were on air together.
There's a minute or two on black between the two. That sets off a lot of alarms in certain control rooms, but luckily (or unluckily) the same ones that are checking for the switching!
RE: Switching issues with BBC channels in early 00s - Josh - 26-01-2023
(26-01-2023, 09:41 AM)Deejay Wrote: Yes. I do have vague memories of the switching interval being increased, I’m not sure it was ever 15 minutes but I may be wrong.I did have a brief look on Genome to see if there were any updates to the CBBC schedule around the time BBC Four launched and couldn't see anything. Surely it would have a knock on effect with the schedules of the channels?
RE: Switching issues with BBC channels in early 00s - Robert Williams - 26-01-2023
(26-01-2023, 11:07 AM)Josh Wrote:(26-01-2023, 09:41 AM)Deejay Wrote: Yes. I do have vague memories of the switching interval being increased, I’m not sure it was ever 15 minutes but I may be wrong.I did have a brief look on Genome to see if there were any updates to the CBBC schedule around the time BBC Four launched and couldn't see anything. Surely it would have a knock on effect with the schedules of the channels?
I think it was still BBC Knowledge at the time that the children's channels temporarily changed to a 6.50pm closedown.
Radio Times didn't carry listings for CBBC and CBeebies until October 2002, so unfortunately there is no record of the channels' schedules in Genome for this period - even if had they done so, I doubt their listings would have been up-to-date enough to include the alterations to the schedule.
RE: Switching issues with BBC channels in early 00s - Stooky Bill - 26-01-2023
(26-01-2023, 11:18 AM)Robert Williams Wrote:Cbeebies launched on 11th Feb 2002 and BBC Four on 2nd March so only a small overlap.(26-01-2023, 11:07 AM)Josh Wrote: I did have a brief look on Genome to see if there were any updates to the CBBC schedule around the time BBC Four launched and couldn't see anything. Surely it would have a knock on effect with the schedules of the channels?
I think it was still BBC Knowledge at the time that the children's channels temporarily changed to a 6.50pm closedown.
Radio Times didn't carry listings for CBBC and CBeebies until October 2002, so unfortunately there is no record of the channels' schedules in Genome for this period - even if had they done so, I doubt their listings would have been up-to-date enough to include the alterations to the schedule.
Forgot to mention above that when the forerunner of Cbeebies was CBBC on Choice which transitioned to Choice without any EPG change. CBBC on Choice wasn't really billed or promoted, and was done with absolutely no budget. No idea how many people watched it
RE: Switching issues with BBC channels in early 00s - VMPhil - 26-01-2023
(26-01-2023, 11:54 AM)Stooky Bill Wrote:(26-01-2023, 11:18 AM)Robert Williams Wrote: I think it was still BBC Knowledge at the time that the children's channels temporarily changed to a 6.50pm closedown.Cbeebies launched on 11th Feb 2002 and BBC Four on 2nd March so only a small overlap.
Radio Times didn't carry listings for CBBC and CBeebies until October 2002, so unfortunately there is no record of the channels' schedules in Genome for this period - even if had they done so, I doubt their listings would have been up-to-date enough to include the alterations to the schedule.
Forgot to mention above that when the forerunner of Cbeebies was CBBC on Choice which transitioned to Choice without any EPG change. CBBC on Choice wasn't really billed or promoted, and was done with absolutely no budget. No idea how many people watched it
I recall complaints about the BBC Choice website address (which at one point they permanently displayed on screen under the DOG) being advertised during children's programmes as the Choice website had content that was clearly adult only. It was then changed during the day to the CBBC website address.
RE: Switching issues with BBC channels in early 00s - Josh - 26-01-2023
Not sure if this is a related/similar issue but when some BBC channels live on iPlayer (CBBC/Three, CBeebies/Four, Scotland & Alba) are close to their closedown, there are black flashes before the feed just cuts out:
https://twitter.com/JoshxReid/status/1571566512913240064
https://twitter.com/JoshxReid/status/1571570847202136065