BBC, ITV, C4 and C5 to launch joint streaming service - Printable Version
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RE: BBC, ITV, C4 and C5 to launch joint streaming service - Technologist - 11-01-2024
Can I just point to the substantive documents
https://www.everyonetv.co.uk/news/statement/lcn-policy-freely
While the its few slots replicate the curent Freeview philsophy
Is is that bad to have popular channels in the first few slots?????
...... and with sensible space to move up when Local TV dies !
Although I am more worried about how BBC Nations /regions
are made available as they can be to all .....
(and itv etc if they go that way)
but the Freeview LCN 16 anomaly has been removed!
RE: BBC, ITV, C4 and C5 to launch joint streaming service - Keith - 11-01-2024
(11-01-2024, 10:02 AM)rick Wrote: So the EPG will be ordered according to popularity? So we're going to see even more of a mess of a channel list than we do currently.I'd broadly agree that one positive from this change is moving the timeshift channels away to a separate section. I do think that it's a pity they didn't allocate a section for Sport or Movies due to industry pressure, especially as a movies section already exists on Freesat.
[[SNIP]]
I think they have missed an opportunity to create a proper EPG that caters for all the existing channels, leaves them room to expand if they choose to, and puts all broadcasters channels together for ease of navigation. The only real positive I can see from this so far is that +1's now have their own section, as do the shopping channels.
I am sceptical about the channels being 'ordered according to popularity'. I think it depends a lot on how often this resulted in channels being reordered, due to a new popularity. If it's roughly once or twice a year (not counting additions and removals) then I don't think it would be too much of a hassle. However, if it's every other month then that would likely be detrimental to viewers.
(11-01-2024, 12:16 AM)cable Wrote: So set top boxes will come. satellite support will come eventually but will launch as a hybrid DTT/Internet service. https://rxtvinfo.com/2024/all-in-one-tv-how-freeview-replacement-freely-will-work/It's interesting to note the article talking about Freely being designed to ensure "backwards and forward compatibility", with mentions that if not connected to the internet it would provide a Freeview/Freesat service.
https://www.cordbusters.co.uk/freely-reshaping-freeview-freesat-epg/
With this in mind I think there's probably a case for them to restructure the existing Freeview and Freesat channel numbers, especially considering that they're all (now) owned by the same company. The only possible slight difference might have to be channels 1 to 5, where on Freeview they'd probably still need to be the SD version (as not all devices support HD), with HD versions in another position.
This way there wouldn't be a difference if the Freely device was operating in 'Freeview/Freesat mode' without the internet connection. It would also simply the TV guides slightly, by having fewer different channels numbers listed.
RE: BBC, ITV, C4 and C5 to launch joint streaming service - Technologist - 11-01-2024
I think Gross reordering is on a three year cycle .....
and who is to say that there will not be some harmonising of the Three platform EPGs
but they do have different history/ backgrounds .
Beside the everyone having all reagions
there is also the issue of how the PSB owened Non PSB channels are treated ..
But bear in mind what Linear channels there may (not) be in the future ..
as veiwing moves to on demand.....
RE: BBC, ITV, C4 and C5 to launch joint streaming service - Rex - 11-01-2024
(11-01-2024, 10:02 AM)rick Wrote: So the EPG will be ordered according to popularity? So we're going to see even more of a mess of a channel list than we do currently. I hope there's a favourite option so you can at least order the channels how YOU want them, not what the country as a whole deems more interesting to watch. Channels 6 and 7 are "allocated according to reach and pairing" (why?) and 8 and 9 are for local channels, and 31 is a "promo channel" slot (however that is going to work) as are channels 90-99. So essentially, two channels potentially can jump ahead of BBC 3 at 10 which is the start of the channels outside of the main five.They're saying that BARB data can determine placement of channels 6 and 7. So really, ITV2 and ITV3 are the only channels that truly qualify for that threshold. Anything else goes after BBC Three/Four and possibly Scotland.
I think they have missed an opportunity to create a proper EPG that caters for all the existing channels, leaves them room to expand if they choose to, and puts all broadcasters channels together for ease of navigation. The only real positive I can see from this so far is that +1's now have their own section, as do the shopping channels. But with channels only being in some regions and getting high prominence, it means we'll have the top of the EPG being 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 10, 11, 13 for most people and the gaps just look silly on a new service. Local TV is a dead duck, and I think a separate section for regional/local TV should have been included to house these channels, so 6 onwards on the guide can be used for the popular channels.
RE: BBC, ITV, C4 and C5 to launch joint streaming service - WillPS - 11-01-2024
Hate to be a naysayer but my gut reading all this is it's too little too late. There was a market need for a 'Freeview over IP' 10 years ago, which arguably TVPlayer briefly filled in.
People missed TVPlayer when it went and you'd still hear moans about it - maybe up to the pandemic, but honestly we're at the point now where people are used to 'starting their journey' from a screen filled with app options, and navigating around to find the content they want; even linear TV ala Pluto and Channelbox. Less and less time is spent on that 'built in' EPG and I don't know that people miss it.
I struggle to see people rushing out to upgrade their sets to something Freely compatible unless they're in that vanishingly small proportion of the population who don't have access to a decent aerial/satellite connection - and also really want a single EPG.
YouView and Freeview Play have largely failed to capture the public attention in the way they were supposed to - OK both have a significant userbase but I would imagine in most cases that's because that's what they were given (by BT mostly in the case of YouView, and by their TV which they chose for other reasons in the case of Freeview Play). I can see this going the same way.
Finally, if the intention is to enable an eventual terrestrial or even broadcast wind down/switch off, I really question the decision not to launch with an STB or seemingly allow STB manufacturers to get involved. If this is going to be a relative market success then it'll take years before a significant number of TV manufacturers get on board with it... I just don't think a significant enough userbase will ever be viable. Perhaps that's by design and the intention is to protect Freeview/DTT as long as possible.
RE: BBC, ITV, C4 and C5 to launch joint streaming service - all new phil - 11-01-2024
(11-01-2024, 11:46 AM)WillPS Wrote: Hate to be a naysayer but my gut reading all this is it's too little too late. There was a market need for a 'Freeview over IP' 10 years ago, which arguably TVPlayer briefly filled in.
People missed TVPlayer when it went and you'd still hear moans about it - maybe up to the pandemic, but honestly we're at the point now where people are used to 'starting their journey' from a screen filled with app options, and navigating around to find the content they want; even linear TV ala Pluto and Channelbox. Less and less time is spent on that 'built in' EPG and I don't know that people miss it.
I fundamentally disagree with what you’re saying here. It may be the case that people act as you say - navigating to find the content they want - when they’re actively choosing to watch something, but the majority of viewing, I would guess, is still passive viewing where something is put on just because it’s on. Case in point - I’m on a day off so I’ve just sat through an episode of Homes Under The Hammer. I wouldn’t have ever thought that I specifically want to watch it, but it was on so I left it on. I’m not really in the mood for picking out a programme, sitting and watching it - HUTH was on in the background whilst I do some other things.
TVPlayer never ticked this box, much as Now TV didn’t when I had it. Sometimes I just want to put something on, and having to navigate through multiple apps to find something is a barrier.
From what I’ve read this new service will tick this box nicely, much like I’m finding Sky Stream does for me now. This type of system will be the future of viewing, which I don’t think will ever be 100% on demand.
RE: BBC, ITV, C4 and C5 to launch joint streaming service - WillPS - 11-01-2024
(11-01-2024, 01:42 PM)all new phil Wrote: I fundamentally disagree with what you’re saying here. It may be the case that people act as you say - navigating to find the content they want - when they’re actively choosing to watch something, but the majority of viewing, I would guess, is still passive viewing where something is put on just because it’s on. Case in point - I’m on a day off so I’ve just sat through an episode of Homes Under The Hammer. I wouldn’t have ever thought that I specifically want to watch it, but it was on so I left it on. I’m not really in the mood for picking out a programme, sitting and watching it - HUTH was on in the background whilst I do some other things.
TVPlayer never ticked this box, much as Now TV didn’t when I had it. Sometimes I just want to put something on, and having to navigate through multiple apps to find something is a barrier.
From what I’ve read this new service will tick this box nicely, much like I’m finding Sky Stream does for me now. This type of system will be the future of viewing, which I don’t think will ever be 100% on demand.
... but that option already exists doesn't it? People, myself included, who want telly which they can just sling on and leave on in the background have always had that ability. The people who don't value that have unplugged their sets from satellite/terrestrial already.
I guess what it comes down to is who is waiting for Freely?
Unless this is about creating a service for the not zero but vanishingly small number of people who want that but can't have it currently, I don't see what this service actually adds.
RE: BBC, ITV, C4 and C5 to launch joint streaming service - all new phil - 11-01-2024
It’s not really about who’s waiting for it though. It’s about an offering that is an improvement on what we have now.
RE: BBC, ITV, C4 and C5 to launch joint streaming service - cable - 11-01-2024
It helps to think of it as the sky stream/glass version of Freeview/Freesat, with the aim being IP delivery of existing channels combined with on-demand content and apps. Whether or not it persuades people away from the likes of Games consoles/ Apple TV/Firesticks/Google TV remains to be seen as its more a replacement for the Tuner than something that is plugged into HDMI1 even if thats an option later on.
It remains to be seen what consumer behaviour will be like towards it and will depend what manufacturers they can get to sign up, as people have touched on before, Freeview Play and Youview have hardly set the world alight. Running Freeview Play and Freely together might cause confusion, especially with the limited Freeview IP fallback. Manufacturers might also push their own UI to rival it.
RE: BBC, ITV, C4 and C5 to launch joint streaming service - WillPS - 11-01-2024
(11-01-2024, 02:30 PM)all new phil Wrote: It’s not really about who’s waiting for it though. It’s about an offering that is an improvement on what we have now.OK, in which case, what will be the improvement?
Programme choice - I'm not convinced that there are scores of channels who want to be on Freeview but don't fit, unless the likes of Pluto and Freevee plan on populating the EPG (presumably at a cost/regulatory burden much higher than offering the same content via their own app). Not sure I see it...
Picture quality - this is probably the most convincing argument for a main set but given the masses who have HD TVs but still end up watching SD - even on channels where HD is available on Freeview... again I don't think there is an underserved market here.
The use case for the everyman I can see is the ability to put the set wherever and it'll 'just work' via Wifi - no connection other than power needed. That is a cool feature no doubt, but I'm not terribly convinced there's a large enough base of users there to make the platform viable.
To reiterate I don't think it's a nonstarter of an idea but it's late to market and I think there's a strong chance of it being caught in a chicken/egg cycle of people not choosing/using it because there's no advantage over Freeview, and operators not bothering with it because there's not enough eyeballs using it (ala Freesat). The lack of a 'conversion' option is utterly baffling from my perspective - even if there's just a couple of decent channels on it which I can't otherwise get I might be persuaded to buy a dongle/STB, but there's zero chance I would part with my otherwise perfectly good TVs in order to benefit. It's essentially the Sky Glass problem repeating itself.