[Jimbo2022]

Yes they started duplication on Thursday I think

[Stuart]

All the nightlight services have been duplicated on 10803 H

What's the rationale behind that?

I could understand if that was a DVB-S2 transponder, so they could increase the bitrate on all those SD channels, but it's no different configuration to 12422 H where they are now.

[Nick Harvey]

What's the rationale behind that?

I think they had 12422 on "short term rental" while they did the changeover, whilst 10803 is a "BBC" transponder anyway.

I assume they're clearing 12422 to hand it back to SES/Astra and stop paying for it.

[Stooky Bill]

Yes the idea was to put all the SD services onto the hired in transponder while they shuffled all the BBC owned transponders. 10803 was the last to have its services moved off, without that extra capacity they'd have struggled to do it.

Now its all done it can all be moved back as is from 12422 onto 10803 which is BBC owned and uplinked.

12422 I think is the transponder that has been used before for temporary Red Button channels

I could understand if that was a DVB-S2 transponder, so they could increase the bitrate on all those SD channels, but it's no different configuration to 12422 H where they are now.

There's no such thing as a DVB-S2 transponder, it's a mode of transmission. The nightlight SD services can't be transmitted in DVB-S2 of course, the SD only boxes can't do S2. Hence the radio stations have to be on it too

[ASnep]

I think they had 12422 on "short term rental" while they did the changeover, whilst 10803 is a "BBC" transponder anyway.

I assume they're clearing 12422 to hand it back to SES/Astra and stop paying for it.

Probably yes.

Though I would thought they'd keep 12422 long term and gave 10803 back to SES. 12422 is a wide TP (SR of 27500 instead of 22000/23000) and when the Nightlight ends in 2024 that could have been usefull to move BBC One South HD off the Sky transponder.

[Stooky Bill]

I think they had 12422 on "short term rental" while they did the changeover, whilst 10803 is a "BBC" transponder anyway.

I assume they're clearing 12422 to hand it back to SES/Astra and stop paying for it.

Probably yes.

Though I would thought they'd keep 12422 long term and gave 10803 back to SES. 12422 is a wide TP (SR of 27500 instead of 22000/23000) and when the Nightlight ends in 2024 that could have been usefull to move BBC One South HD off the Sky transponder.

No because 12422 isn't the BBCs it's someone else's, they just use it occasionally. 10803 is their space uplinked by them

When the SD services end next year the BBC will be able to stop paying for a whole transponder. Renting the whole of 12422 just to fit in one service would cost more than just renting the small amount of space from Sky. Also by this time next year, it might well be that there'll be more space due to BBC4 and CBBC closing

They will have chosen 10803 for the nightlight for a reason. It'll presumably either be because their contract for it is first to expire, or it is the transponder that has the cheapest early termination fee.

Moving one of the existing HD transponders onto the slightly bigger 12422 would mean they'll still have a spare BBC owned transponder without anything on it, they currently only need 5 and a bit

[ASnep]

No because 12422 isn't the BBCs it's someone else's, they just use it occasionally. 10803 is their space uplinked by them

Just because they don't own it now, doesn't mean they couldn't aquire it and hand back 10803 to SES in return. And who uplinks which transponder isn't fixed as well, if they'd keep it they could uplink it themselves no problem.

When the SD services end next year the BBC will be able to stop paying for a whole transponder. Renting the whole of 12422 just to fit in one service would cost more than just renting the small amount of space from Sky. Also by this time next year, it might well be that there'll be more space due to BBC4 and CBBC closing

That's why I have mentioned 12422 being a wide transponder. If it is switched to DVB-S2 it could fit 6 HD channels instead of 5. So you could move the services of one of the exisiting slim transponders to 12422 and still have enough capacity to add BBC1 South as well (elliminating the need to rent capacity from Sky).
We also don't know when BBC4/CBBC are closing, that still could take some time.

They will have chosen 10803 for the nightlight for a reason. It'll presumably either be because their contract for it is first to expire, or it is the transponder that has the cheapest early termination fee.

Moving one of the existing HD transponders onto the slightly bigger 12422 would mean they'll still have a spare BBC owned transponder without anything on it, they currently only need 5 and a bit

Again you can (like you pointed out yourself) terminate the contracts with SES for transponder rental. 10803 and the other TPs currently used aren't perpetually linked to the BBC. And my point is they only need 5 TPs, with one of them being a wide one, to fit all services.

[Stooky Bill]

These things aren't as easy as you suggest. 


Thing is you don't know what the contracts are on those transponders. Renting a transponder full time costs more than leasing it outright from SES. The current owners (possibly Globecast) might not want to sell and the length and terms of the contract might not be suitable for the BBCs use.

They (the BBC) have 6 transponders, soon to be 5 as they'll terminate 10803 next year. If they took over 12422 as you'd suggest to replace an HD transponder they'd need to terminate another of their existing transponders too.  

As I say terminating a transponder lease early will likely invoke an early termination clause, if 10803 is the one they've chosen to close down then probably that's because it's coming to the end of its contract soon anyway so it's cheap/free to stop using. So getting rid of another early could be quite expensive.... more so than renting a few Mb/s space from Sky for a few years. 

It's not as simple as the BBC just taking over the uplink for 12442. Firstly I would have thought that it's not a coincidence that all their transponders are grouped together in terms of frequency. It's easier to design an uplink site that is transmitting all similar frequencies. And it's not just the transmit side the off air monitoring for the station needs the ability to do high as well as low band

Looking at Lyngsat though the biggest problem they'd have taking over 12442 is that their existing transponders are on Astra 2E and 2G. 12442 is on Astra 2F. So that's not just a case of just retuning a modulator to a different frequency, it requires a seperate dish pointing at 2F. 
(and no you can't just use a dish pointing at 2G to transmit to 2F, they move independently and the large uplink dishes need to be lined up perfectly with the satellite)

[Jimbo2022]

This notice started appearing between some programmes from 19 June.

It used to only appear about 3 times a day but now it is seen possibly at every programme junction whenever promos are carried elsewhere

[/quote]

[Brekkie]

So we have a situation where the BBC is moving towards only being available in HD but they still sell a black and white TV licence?