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BBC considers "U-turn" on BBC Four closure - Printable Version

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RE: BBC considers "U-turn" on BBC Four closure - Kojak - 31-03-2023

It’s at times like this that you want to bang your head against a brick wall. There is no longer any real leadership at the BBC.

I personally don’t think BBC3 should have been closed in the first place - but equally (and perhaps paradoxically) I don’t think there was any need to bring it back. Especially when it was announced just a few months later that BBC4, CBBC and News 24 were for the chop! What the Beeb giveth with one hand, with another they taketh away.

I think the idea of giving a bigger linear outlet for BBC3 programmes was and is good - but I think that could have just as easily been done without bringing back the whole channel. Why not, say, have 10pm-midnight on BBC Two as the BBC Three slot? I know, I know, what about Newsnight - but that programme is sadly on borrowed time anyway. I’ve always thought it should be merged with the Ten over on One. You could then put the CBBC shows on Two during the day - and voila! A whole channel slot no longer needed.

RE: BBC considers "U-turn" on BBC Four closure - Andrew - 31-03-2023

The weird thing is that when you hear programmes trailed on young skewing services like Radio 1 they will never mention the linear channel, it’ll be “The Apprentice, watch on iPlayer” yet at the same time they are wanting people to watch linear BBC Three

I don’t deny the audience probably collapsed when BBC Three was axed, but bringing it back now, when viewing habits have changed so much since was a strange decision

RE: BBC considers "U-turn" on BBC Four closure - interestednovice - 01-04-2023

(31-03-2023, 07:42 PM)Robert Williams Wrote:  Considering how difficult the BBC finds it to shut things down, I'd be more surprised if they actually went through with these closures.  Similarly, the closure of Radio 4 Extra is "not a done deal" either, according to comments made by the BBC's director of speech late last year.

Radio 4 Extra costs almost nothing to run. It has hardly any (perhaps now even no) original programming, it’s all speech and drama which is already produced and even the distribution costs are low as it’s a “digital station”. No point axing it, to be honest. It “bulks out” the offering of the BBC for cheap.

Retooling BBC Radio 7 into BBC Radio 4 Extra made sense and saved money, on the other hand. As an “extra” station, audience expectations are set low (and lack of new content can be justified) - and it links it closely into the Radio 4 brand which means more people are likely to give it a try.
(31-03-2023, 10:21 PM)Kojak Wrote:  I think the idea of giving a bigger linear outlet for BBC3 programmes was and is good - but I think that could have just as easily been done without bringing back the whole channel. Why not, say, have 10pm-midnight on BBC Two as the BBC Three slot? I know, I know, what about Newsnight - but that programme is sadly on borrowed time anyway. I’ve always thought it should be merged with the Ten over on One. You could then put the CBBC shows on Two during the day - and voila! A whole channel slot no longer needed.
Well, now what you are suggesting is effectively closing down BBC Two!

They tried that sort of idea with BBC Three on BBC One in the evenings, and it did quite well which was part of the justification for bringing it back. There was some evidence that large parts of the audience tuning in to BBC “Three on One” enjoyed the programmes and would not otherwise have seen them, if they were only on iPlayer. I don’t believe ratings were too bad either. I think the point was, though, that the very idea of a multi-focused general entertainment channel has gone out of the window. If younger viewers don’t have a dedicated channel to go to, then they won’t realise the BBC are putting out a “strand” for them.

However, BBC Two daytime is a mess of BBC News Channel simulcasts, Politics Live (sometimes on the NC anyway) and repeats of daytime BBC One content. BBC Two does have in it’s licence a condition to do late-night long form current affairs, so Newsnight effectively can’t be axed. What they could do is bring back closedowns to facilitate a timeshare. Have the BBC Two feed go off-air after early morning sign zone, say at 6am. Then fire up CBBC, on it’s own channel. That could go off again at around 9:30am when kids are at school, BBC Two could show some Politics Live, etc and continue with the schedule. Theoretically, it could close down again in the early afternoon for an after-school slot for CBBC, then open around 7pm. BBC Three could come in around midnight (or straight after Newsnight at 11:15pm) if they switched BBC Two off again, and air for a few hours. Younger people tend to be up later, so it might just work!

I don’t know how they would fit it all in on weekends though.

RE: BBC considers "U-turn" on BBC Four closure - interestednovice - 01-04-2023

(31-03-2023, 07:38 PM)Stuart Wrote:  perception that the BBC Four audience need to be spoon-fed a linear channel. They are the 'silver surfers', many of whom are more than capable of navigating iPlayer or t'interweb to find their fix of art and nostalgia. Furthermore, you don't need to be that smart to use a Smart TV these days.
True, but equally many have that perception because some of them DO have to be spoon-fed the channel!

They check the listings of a paper Radio Times, because even the EPG is beyond them, and then type the number of the channel they want in. The Radio Times tells them that BBC Four is 9, so they put that in.

That’s how many of that generation watch TV, and the concept of iPlayer is beyond them. Not all of them, but a significant proportion.

RE: BBC considers "U-turn" on BBC Four closure - tellyblues - 01-04-2023

BBC3's target audience seems to be 40+ going by the schedules but viewing figures have to be boosted somehow because the programming for the people whom the channel is supposed to be for has failed.

To be fair, there isn't the budget to make the shows that 16-34s want but the BBC should have known that and tried to tackle the problem in a much better, less insulting way.

RE: BBC considers "U-turn" on BBC Four closure - Kojak - 01-04-2023

(01-04-2023, 12:24 AM)interestednovice Wrote:  
(31-03-2023, 10:21 PM)Kojak Wrote:  I think the idea of giving a bigger linear outlet for BBC3 programmes was and is good - but I think that could have just as easily been done without bringing back the whole channel. Why not, say, have 10pm-midnight on BBC Two as the BBC Three slot? I know, I know, what about Newsnight - but that programme is sadly on borrowed time anyway. I’ve always thought it should be merged with the Ten over on One. You could then put the CBBC shows on Two during the day - and voila! A whole channel slot no longer needed.
Well, now what you are suggesting is effectively closing down BBC Two!

They tried that sort of idea with BBC Three on BBC One in the evenings, and it did quite well which was part of the justification for bringing it back. There was some evidence that large parts of the audience tuning in to BBC “Three on One” enjoyed the programmes and would not otherwise have seen them, if they were only on iPlayer. I don’t believe ratings were too bad either. I think the point was, though, that the very idea of a multi-focused general entertainment channel has gone out of the window. If younger viewers don’t have a dedicated channel to go to, then they won’t realise the BBC are putting out a “strand” for them.

However, BBC Two daytime is a mess of BBC News Channel simulcasts, Politics Live (sometimes on the NC anyway) and repeats of daytime BBC One content. BBC Two does have in it’s licence a condition to do late-night long form current affairs, so Newsnight effectively can’t be axed. What they could do is bring back closedowns to facilitate a timeshare. Have the BBC Two feed go off-air after early morning sign zone, say at 6am. Then fire up CBBC, on it’s own channel. That could go off again at around 9:30am when kids are at school, BBC Two could show some Politics Live, etc and continue with the schedule. Theoretically, it could close down again in the early afternoon for an after-school slot for CBBC, then open around 7pm. BBC Three could come in around midnight (or straight after Newsnight at 11:15pm) if they switched BBC Two off again, and air for a few hours. Younger people tend to be up later, so it might just work!

I don’t know how they would fit it all in on weekends though.
Well IMO BBC Two lost its purpose when BBCs Three and Four launched. It wouldn’t be closing down BBC Two as such - more restoring it to its former vigour. There’s very little to it now anyway - the only real slots of its own are 8pm, 9pm and Newsnight. Everything else is repeats, simulcasts or acquisitions. 

I don’t think there’s any need to close down BBC2 to put CBBC on its space - that would be too confusing and bitty for the viewers. Just put it on BBC2 itself at breakfast and after school. Sign Zone in the mid morning and after lunch. Politics Live at lunchtime. Job’s a good’un. Would be better than the endless repeats and BBC News simulcasts we get during daytime now.

RE: Newsnight - if it really must be on BBC2 (and considering there has been talk of it being axed for years, I imagine the BBC are obviously not that scared of the licence) could
it perhaps be moved to 8pm? I remember that was mooted several years ago (when the Ten was extended to finish at 10.45) but it was thwarted because of a backlash against missing parliamentary votes. I wish I could find the article - I think it was in the New Statesman - but there was definitely talk of Newsnight moving to 8pm at one point.

RE: BBC considers "U-turn" on BBC Four closure - interestednovice - 01-04-2023

Newsnight aired around 10:45 until almost 11:30 during the early stages of the pandemic, as it shared Studio E with the Ten and they had to switch over. So it has aired later.

It’s only ever aired earlier on Bank holidays or during Glastonbury, as far as I know. On those occasions, it has gone out as early as 7pm.

The licence dictates it must air post 10pm, or maybe 10:30pm, I believe - but the BBC could, of course, ask for it to be varied. They’ve just done that for the BBC NC and seemingly had it rubber stamped by Ofcom.

RE: BBC considers "U-turn" on BBC Four closure - TheGregmeister - 01-04-2023

(31-03-2023, 07:38 PM)Stuart Wrote:  
(31-03-2023, 06:46 PM)Allanbuzzy Wrote:  I can see the same happening for CBBC, audiences choosing not to go to iPlayer but instead Disney+, Netflix, etc. but keeping BBC Four is at least showing that the BBC can afford to keep an arts and archive programming channel alive... even if it means they have to sacrifice a 7-14 year old demo at the BBC.
The CBBC demographic may have no choice but to go to iPlayer.  SVODs like Disney+ and Netflix are drifting down the priority list where families are trying to save money.

People have the misconception that the BBC Four audience need to be spoon-fed a linear channel. They are the 'silver surfers', many of whom are more than capable of navigating iPlayer or t'interweb to find their fix of art and nostalgia. Furthermore, you don't need to be that smart to use a Smart TV these days.

I hope both channels are saved. If they stopped starving the BBC of money, they could be!

Not wanting to make this political, but it has to be said, the BBC is one broadcast organisation hardly "starved of money" when it gets somewhere in the region of £3.7billion per year from the (payable by law but IMO increasingly unenforceable) TVL, then something like £1.5billion in additional revenue from its various commercial activities.

Of course that is a whole other argument beyond the permitted scope of this forum, so let's not go down that rabbit hole!

RE: BBC considers "U-turn" on BBC Four closure - Stooky Bill - 01-04-2023

(31-03-2023, 07:23 PM)JAS84 Wrote:  If BBC Four doesn't close down, then there's no reason to close CBBC either, as they wouldn't be saving on the bandwidth.
No, because 'bandwidth' isn't the only cost to running a channel. There's the people that plan and schedule and get the channel on air. Plus CBBC has in vision continuity which is costly.

Bandwidth isn't really an issue, these days it's just a few bits of data in a much bigger stream of data. The EPG listing costs, but not much in the scheme of things

RE: BBC considers "U-turn" on BBC Four closure - Milkshake - 01-04-2023

Bring back BBC 3 back on to TV is flawed, as it been a complete waste of time. Wheather it should have shut down in the first place in 2016 is a different kettle of fish. Personnel, it was done far too quickly and it was actully done as cost cutting measure. I still stand it was always going to happen.

BBC can bang drums all it wants but there is no programmes, the cupboard bear. The real Question is why is there no budget for BBC programmes covering 12 -30 year old, that what we should be asking. Not where they should be played out.

The fact people cared more about having some stupied channel on button 7? instead of actul programmes proves this whole situltion is complete mess.

It's true a large propation of the target audience largely lives online, but because they getting better seved by online operations, with actully programmes. Of course that means it even worse now as it will exclude the most poorest from society from accessing such content.

The BBC has caused this whole mess and seem to think the kids will stay with us until 12, then float away but will somehow come back to them in the 20s? to watch BBC1? It's clear that not happening. So how do they fix this... its rather simple make some programmes.

With BBC4 most of its content could work rather well on BBC 2 from 7pm - 10pm. I bet TOTP repeats on Friday night would get just as manay viewers.