BBC Breakfast/BBC News at One Extension? - Printable Version
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RE: BBC Breakfast/BBC News at One Extension? - Joe - 07-06-2023
It’s the same logo, it just has a different lock up in different contexts.
RE: BBC Breakfast/BBC News at One Extension? - itsrobert - 07-06-2023
(06-06-2023, 07:56 AM)interestednovice Wrote: I’d argue that ABC being very decentralised reflects Australia in general.
While Canberra is the capital city, Sydney is the most significant media base for most broadcasters. Australia in general has the vast majority of the population concentrated in/around 5 major cities across the country. It also has several time zones. Catering to all of this means it may make sense to make extensive use of bases across the country.
News in Australia is also very different, generally. The country is quite parochial. Apart from most having a bit of interest in British affairs, due to our long historical connections, most Australians really don’t care very much about international news. In fact, they primarily care about regional/local news and this gets higher viewing figures than national news programmes. Their “news diet” is therefore different and the way ABC produce news reflects that.
I’d argue we are in the opposite position. The country is physically, geographically small so is only one time zone. London is a traditional capital city, where pretty much every company would have it’s UK HQ. Other news, whether political, the arts or whatever, really tends to originate from London. It therefore makes huge sense to have a centralised news department there.
Salford should have a basic North West Tonight/Today operation like every other region, at low cost. Breakfast should come from London, and the News at One should also. The idea of having part of the same team produce both is more an argument for Breakfast to return to London than for the One to move to Salford.
Why is having things randomly not in London regarded as a “Good Thing” when it creates inefficiencies, costs more and results in little difference to the viewer (often arguably a downgrade)?
In fact, at a time of such cuts in news at the BBC, cuts which are severely affecting the quality of output, how can such extravagance possibly be justified?
I'm guessing you're from London then?
I think there are two points to make here. Firstly, although major political and economic news predominantly emanates from London, I can't agree with you about the arts and other related fields like culture and music. There are many other UK cities to rival, and arguably exceed, London on that score, two of which - Liverpool and Manchester - are close to Media City. Having Breakfast based in Salford has allowed regional voices to be heard - not necessarily always as presenters - but as contributors in the studio. For instance, it is refreshing to see academics from universities in Northern England featured for analysis, rather than the usual contributors from London.
Secondly, creating more significant media industries across the UK opens up opportunities for young people wanting to work in the sector. Twenty years ago, I did briefly consider a career in the media, but I didn't relish the prospect of having to probably relocate to London. It's nice that young people these days have more opportunities across the UK to work in front of and behind the camera in the media industry.
So, yes, whilst it may create some inefficiencies, there are some significant benefits as well.
RE: BBC Breakfast/BBC News at One Extension? - m_in_m - 07-06-2023
Greater representation from institutions outside of London is certainly something that has benefited from Breakfast moving.
Globaltraffic24 - Globaltraffic24 - 07-06-2023
(05-06-2023, 06:09 PM)interestednovice Wrote: You make a very good point, DTV.
Out of the programmes you’ve cited there, for example, the geographical spread effectively creates a need for extra studio space and staffing. Breakfast, originally, would likely have been planned to come from the original Studio B in NBH. The soft side of the set, where Impact was presented from, would have looked great set up for Breakfast. Studio B was the spiritual successor to TC7 which housed both Newsnight and Breakfast at TV Centre. Even now, in the new Studio B, the set could probably be altered to host a sofa-based Breakfast in a similar way to the manner in which they alter the set for Laura K’s show.
Sports news programming, leaving aside Sport department-produced standalone programmes such as Match of the Day, could easily be accommodated at NBH. Sportsday could simply use a news studio and short sports updates could be presented either from the desk or catwalk within existing studios in a similar manner to business programming. Short updates clearly don’t need a dedicated studio and crew.
I’m sure 5 Live could easily fit in too, especially given that they do on occasion use London-based studios anyway.
The idea that programming should be based outside of London for the sake of it is a waste of money, as others have said. London is the UK’s capital city, it makes sense to have your news department based there. There are economies of scale, working efficiencies and benefits to collaboration (evident both on-screen and off) from having everything all in one place. This was the vision of NBH as intended, and why the BBC invested billions in producing the combined newsroom functions.
Before it was even finished, this vision was eroded and compromised for political reasons. It was simply unnecessary. Breakfast has come from a glorified cupboard for over a decade as a result, and the BBC have spent a fortune shuttling presenters back and forth to Salford. There was also a huge bill for relocation packages which wouldn’t have been needed if they stayed in London. Every single day, weather is presented down the line instead of in-studio because weather is still based in London. Given the programme is about having “the team” sat around the sofa together, this is jarring and presentationally poor. And it’s not genuinely created any jobs in the North either.
Now, under Tim Davie, whole news departments have randomly been moved across the UK to different regional bases for similar political reasons. It is absolutely not creating value for money for the LF payer and is a total waste of effort for no gain whatsoever.
And, by the way, I say all of this as someone who lives outside of London myself.
(06-06-2023, 07:56 AM)interestednovice Wrote: I’d argue that ABC being very decentralised reflects Australia in general.The argument that all news should come from London because ‘it’s the centre of the planet’ etc etc is hilarious. The legendary Jean Pierre Pernaut of France fought religiously against exactly the same bias at TF1. His almost pathological obsession with better regional representation on the 1pm news resulted in outstanding viewing figures and a sense for viewers in the regions that the afternoon news was ‘their’ news. Yes, the show generally broadcast from Paris, but it routinely featured OBs and reports from greater France. I remember being in a Provençal town and seeing a huge poster with his face on it celebrating that he’d literally just hosted a show there the previous year and handed the town a prize for their excellent local market! They were THAT proud of such a small achievement and it had a huge impact for them being seen nationally on screen.
While Canberra is the capital city, Sydney is the most significant media base for most broadcasters. Australia in general has the vast majority of the population concentrated in/around 5 major cities across the country. It also has several time zones. Catering to all of this means it may make sense to make extensive use of bases across the country.
News in Australia is also very different, generally. The country is quite parochial. Apart from most having a bit of interest in British affairs, due to our long historical connections, most Australians really don’t care very much about international news. In fact, they primarily care about regional/local news and this gets higher viewing figures than national news programmes. Their “news diet” is therefore different and the way ABC produce news reflects that.
I’d argue we are in the opposite position. The country is physically, geographically small so is only one time zone. London is a traditional capital city, where pretty much every company would have it’s UK HQ. Other news, whether political, the arts or whatever, really tends to originate from London. It therefore makes huge sense to have a centralised news department there.
Salford should have a basic North West Tonight/Today operation like every other region, at low cost. Breakfast should come from London, and the News at One should also. The idea of having part of the same team produce both is more an argument for Breakfast to return to London than for the One to move to Salford.
Why is having things randomly not in London regarded as a “Good Thing” when it creates inefficiencies, costs more and results in little difference to the viewer (often arguably a downgrade)?
In fact, at a time of such cuts in news at the BBC, cuts which are severely affecting the quality of output, how can such extravagance possibly be justified?
Broadcasting from outside London is a no brainer. Of course, I agree that the sporadic and often token act of individual shows and teams suddenly being shuffled off to a regional city is pointless box ticking, but if it’s done right it can be a great success. I’d argue that 5Live and Breakfast have worked well. Newsbeat from Brum and tech from Glasgow have had no real positive or negative impact. (The loss of Rory Cellan-Jones isn’t that big a deal. He was pretty much at retirement age and making a lot of money doing the after dinner work and writing books. I know this because I booked him for a gig recently!)
In summary, don’t be THAT person who thinks the other animals should be starved to feed the London bull. Representation is important if the BBC is to survive.
RE: BBC Breakfast/BBC News at One Extension? - London Lite - 07-06-2023
I'm from London and I'm not bothered where Breakfast or the One comes from. News gathering can still come from London as it does during Breakfast and viewers haven't really noticed anything different since the move to Salford with regards to the news aspect of the programme.
RE: BBC Breakfast/BBC News at One Extension? - Roger Darthwell - 07-06-2023
(07-06-2023, 12:49 PM)London Lite Wrote: I'm from London and I'm not bothered where Breakfast or the One comes from. News gathering can still come from London as it does during Breakfast and viewers haven't really noticed anything different since the move to Salford with regards to the news aspect of the programme.
Wait BBC Breakfast's newsgathering still comes from London? Why the newsgathering is still there? I thought it was moved to Salford alongside the programme
RE: BBC Breakfast/BBC News at One Extension? - steve - 07-06-2023
The BBC’s newsgathering happens around the country and the world but all feeds into the Central London ‘hub’. That is live and operational 24 / 7 / 365.
The production of Breakfast solely happens in Salford but clearly it uses the BBC’s newsgathering resource from London.
If that makes sense!
RE: BBC Breakfast/BBC News at One Extension? - interestednovice - 08-06-2023
(07-06-2023, 11:35 AM)itsrobert Wrote: I'm guessing you're from London then?No, in fact I live in the countryside nowhere near neither London nor Salford. But I do not want to post my exact location. Expecting exactly this criticism, I mentioned this in my initial post on this thread.
I think there are two points to make here. Firstly, although major political and economic news predominantly emanates from London, I can't agree with you about the arts and other related fields like culture and music. There are many other UK cities to rival, and arguably exceed, London on that score, two of which - Liverpool and Manchester - are close to Media City. Having Breakfast based in Salford has allowed regional voices to be heard - not necessarily always as presenters - but as contributors in the studio. For instance, it is refreshing to see academics from universities in Northern England featured for analysis, rather than the usual contributors from London.
Secondly, creating more significant media industries across the UK opens up opportunities for young people wanting to work in the sector. Twenty years ago, I did briefly consider a career in the media, but I didn't relish the prospect of having to probably relocate to London. It's nice that young people these days have more opportunities across the UK to work in front of and behind the camera in the media industry.
So, yes, whilst it may create some inefficiencies, there are some significant benefits as well.
We are in a time of ruthless cutbacks at the BBC, which are severely affecting services and output quality. Having programming scattered around the place, just to give vague “opportunities” across the country, is a luxury we cannot afford. Better to save the money, and reinvest it in other areas so we don’t have to have such deep and impactful cuts.
Also, this is unfair to staff in London who have already been hit hard by news restructuring. I know it’s fashionable to hate on London, but it’s not logical. Most Breakfast arts features are sit-down interviews taped at another time (probably because most big name artists, etc, don’t want to be on TV live at 6am) whereas politics and other such stories tend to be live from Westminster or other key locations in London. During the pandemic, everybody has become used to “down the line” interviews and this is a way to involve people from all over the place without the need for the physical studio to be in the same location as the contributor. It’s not a fair criticism (or accurate one) to argue that everyone who appears on London-based programmes is from London or presents a London-centric point of view.
So, to end as you start, “I guess you’re from Manchester then?”!
RE: BBC Breakfast/BBC News at One Extension? - interestednovice - 08-06-2023
(07-06-2023, 05:47 PM)steve Wrote: The BBC’s newsgathering happens around the country and the world but all feeds into the Central London ‘hub’. That is live and operational 24 / 7 / 365.
The production of Breakfast solely happens in Salford but clearly it uses the BBC’s newsgathering resource from London.
If that makes sense!
Exactly, there is a 24/7 international newsgathering operation across the globe. But it feeds into a single “base” which is NBH in London. That’s logical and the only real way to run a news organisation - a single major HQ newsgathering “base”.
It is logical, and less costly, to have your programme teams based in the same physical location and produce your news programmes there.
As others have said, it makes little difference on screen (although actually small changes such as being able to more easily present on location at iconic places in London may be possible with a London-based programme, which would be a small positive impact) where the programme comes from, so if it saves money it makes sense to base it in London.
Nobody has presented a reasoned argument to refute that logic, in my view. I never said that London was the centre of the universe, that is others putting words in my mouth. But clearly, it is our capital city. Most global broadcasters present the news from their capital city. It’s the standard, because it’s logical.
Even the “reaching for examples” cases brought up in the thread don’t really follow. The supposed-regional-champion TF1 bulletin still comes from Paris which is actually my whole point - you don’t need to move a programme to make it “not capital city centric” (and, by the way, billboards of a presenter are a common French ad technique which you see all the time); Australia is a very unusual country as I outlined before and I can’t think of any other examples anywhere else in the word.
Breakfast coming from Salford is like TF1 presenting their morning news from Rouen. It would be very strange indeed.
Even more so when the only studio available in that location, apparently, is basically a cupboard.
RE: BBC Breakfast/BBC News at One Extension? - London Lite - 08-06-2023
The Rouen comparison would make more sense if it was from Toulouse which has just under 500k residents (Greater Manchester is a tad larger), Rouen has a population slightly larger than Bath, but France has always had a Paris centric domestic media.
The last decade of moving BBC outlets to Salford hasn't seen any major issues presentation or guest wise. The only issue has been Breakfast moving into a regional news set, but they've made it work.