BBC Breakfast/BBC News at One Extension? - Printable Version

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RE: BBC Breakfast/BBC News at One Extension? - DTV - 05-06-2023

(04-06-2023, 10:24 PM)ViridianFan Wrote:  I also think what was the point of the massive move to new broadcasting house. Maybe I’m missing something but in my head I accept that it’s where the news comes from unless there is a major story which warrants it coming from somewhere else but even then I don’t always see the need.

Well the BBC does have form on this kind of grand new start that gets undone relatively quickly. I mean, NBH itself was commissioned just three years after the News Centre at TVC had opened - the prior attempt to bring news into all one place (which itself was a replacement for a planned NBH-style News Centre at White City). And, of course, the original plans for NBH predate the Salford plans, so presumably Breakfast, Sport news and 5Live were all originally destined for W1A too.But the directive to bring all of news together then gets superseded by concerns of being too London-centric, and so some things are moved outside of your single, central newsroom - of course, a lot of specialist news teams have already been moved away.

While I suppose it might seem a bit counter-intuitive, it's ultimately not such an issue these days as communication between locations is much easier and, increasingly, regional centres are being brought up to higher technical standards. Having everything in one place is no longer entirely necessary and the small hiccups are nothing compared to, as you say, easily ticking a box. Plus, to be honest, I'd rather News met their out-of-London targets through permanently moving a bulletin to a proper set than their current occasional and random tours of empty parts of other BBC buildings.

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RE: BBC Breakfast/BBC News at One Extension? - interestednovice - 05-06-2023

(05-06-2023, 10:14 AM)DTV Wrote:  Well the BBC does have form on this kind of grand new start that gets undone relatively quickly. I mean, NBH itself was commissioned just three years after the News Centre at TVC had opened - the prior attempt to bring news into all one place (which itself was a replacement for a planned NBH-style News Centre at White City). And, of course, the original plans for NBH predate the Salford plans, so presumably Breakfast, Sport news and 5Live were all originally destined for W1A too.But the directive to bring all of news together then gets superseded by concerns of being too London-centric, and so some things are moved outside of your single, central newsroom - of course, a lot of specialist news teams have already been moved away.

While I suppose it might seem a bit counter-intuitive, it's ultimately not such an issue these days as communication between locations is much easier and, increasingly, regional centres are being brought up to higher technical standards. Having everything in one place is no longer entirely necessary and the small hiccups are nothing compared to, as you say, easily ticking a box. Plus, to be honest, I'd rather News met their out-of-London targets through permanently moving a bulletin to a proper set than their current occasional and random tours of empty parts of other BBC buildings.

You make a very good point, DTV.

Out of the programmes you’ve cited there, for example, the geographical spread effectively creates a need for extra studio space and staffing. Breakfast, originally, would likely have been planned to come from the original Studio B in NBH. The soft side of the set, where Impact was presented from, would have looked great set up for Breakfast. Studio B was the spiritual successor to TC7 which housed both Newsnight and Breakfast at TV Centre. Even now, in the new Studio B, the set could probably be altered to host a sofa-based Breakfast in a similar way to the manner in which they alter the set for Laura K’s show.

Sports news programming, leaving aside Sport department-produced standalone programmes such as Match of the Day, could easily be accommodated at NBH. Sportsday could simply use a news studio and short sports updates could be presented either from the desk or catwalk within existing studios in a similar manner to business programming. Short updates clearly don’t need a dedicated studio and crew.

I’m sure 5 Live could easily fit in too, especially given that they do on occasion use London-based studios anyway.

The idea that programming should be based outside of London for the sake of it is a waste of money, as others have said. London is the UK’s capital city, it makes sense to have your news department based there. There are economies of scale, working efficiencies and benefits to collaboration (evident both on-screen and off) from having everything all in one place. This was the vision of NBH as intended, and why the BBC invested billions in producing the combined newsroom functions.

Before it was even finished, this vision was eroded and compromised for political reasons. It was simply unnecessary. Breakfast has come from a glorified cupboard for over a decade as a result, and the BBC have spent a fortune shuttling presenters back and forth to Salford. There was also a huge bill for relocation packages which wouldn’t have been needed if they stayed in London. Every single day, weather is presented down the line instead of in-studio because weather is still based in London. Given the programme is about having “the team” sat around the sofa together, this is jarring and presentationally poor. And it’s not genuinely created any jobs in the North either.

Now, under Tim Davie, whole news departments have randomly been moved across the UK to different regional bases for similar political reasons. It is absolutely not creating value for money for the LF payer and is a total waste of effort for no gain whatsoever.

And, by the way, I say all of this as someone who lives outside of London myself.

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RE: BBC Breakfast/BBC News at One Extension? - DTV - 05-06-2023

(05-06-2023, 06:09 PM)interestednovice Wrote:  Out of the programmes you’ve cited there, for example, the geographical spread effectively creates a need for extra studio space and staffing. Breakfast, originally, would likely have been planned to come from the original Studio B in NBH. The soft side of the set, where Impact was presented from, would have looked great set up for Breakfast. Studio B was the spiritual successor to TC7 which housed both Newsnight and Breakfast at TV Centre. Even now, in the new Studio B, the set could probably be altered to host a sofa-based Breakfast in a similar way to the manner in which they alter the set for Laura K’s show.

Yeah, originally there would have been six proper TV studios - four in the basement, as now (though in a different arrangement), with the large one taking over from TC7 (which at the time would have been Breakfast, Working Lunch, Newsround, Newsnight and Breakfast with Frost) and the others presumably host to BBC One news, BBC Three news and possibly BBC London (though am not sure if they were in the original plans). BBC World wouldn't originally have part moved into Studio B, but instead come entirely from one of two newsroom studios opposite each other on what is now the mezzanine floor.

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RE: BBC Breakfast/BBC News at One Extension? - interestednovice - 05-06-2023

I’m sure I saw some of the original plans over at the blue place once.

As you say, the idea for BBC World News was a kind of “second Studio E” right opposite which would have provided some further background interest.

Galleries were also going to be able to control any studio, for added flexibility.

It was all pretty exciting, but even what they ended up with was very good and futuristic when new.

Studio A is the only “dud” studio, as the AR doesn’t look good!

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RE: BBC Breakfast/BBC News at One Extension? - AaronLancs - 05-06-2023

(05-06-2023, 06:44 PM)interestednovice Wrote:  I’m sure I saw some of the original plans over at the blue place once.

As you say, the idea for BBC World News was a kind of “second Studio E” right opposite which would have provided some further background interest.

Galleries were also going to be able to control any studio, for added flexibility.

It was all pretty exciting, but even what they ended up with was very good and futuristic when new.

Studio A is the only “dud” studio, as the AR doesn’t look good!

Funny you should say that.

From the original BBC Urban Commitment by MJP Architects. Here is the ground floor plan with the two studios opposite each other boxed in red. One other thing of note is the N8 1999-2003 style double desk set styles used in this plan:


Also considering that the studios were to be opposite each other. One does wonder how they would have worked, especially when both channels were to have broadcasted at the same time over the newsroom atrium.

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RE: BBC Breakfast/BBC News at One Extension? - interestednovice - 05-06-2023

Well done digging those out!

I remember also seeing design renders of NBH before it was built, including studio finishes, which would have incorporated some of these features. I’m not sure how those designs leaked out to the public though. Again, I think somebody at the blue place found them.

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RE: BBC Breakfast/BBC News at One Extension? - AaronLancs - 05-06-2023

(05-06-2023, 07:18 PM)interestednovice Wrote:  Well done digging those out!

I remember also seeing design renders of NBH before it was built, including studio finishes, which would have incorporated some of these features. I’m not sure how those designs leaked out to the public though. Again, I think somebody at the blue place found them.

I had the PDF downloaded ages ago and been studying that section fastidiously ever since. So just when someone rang a bell. I knew I had to share.

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RE: BBC Breakfast/BBC News at One Extension? - DTV - 05-06-2023

(05-06-2023, 07:07 PM)AaronLancs Wrote:  Also considering that the studios were to be opposite each other. One does wonder how they would have worked, especially when both channels were to have broadcasted at the same time over the newsroom atrium.

I'm not sure it would have been as big deal as might be imagined - if you look at the old News at Five Studio C backdrop or the newsroom trundle cam shots (which is where the studios would have been), you can't actually see much on the other side of the newsroom (largely due to the hoop). Plus, it's rare for studio shots to be exactly straight on - with the newsroom being so wide that even a small angle would give you a shot with a backdrop of the weather/OS balcony. So, overall, the not great shot of the rear of another studio probably wouldn't have been a major issue.

That said, a mezzanine level shot doesn't actually give that good a shot of newsroom action (as they should have learnt from the first N8 set) and those large pillars would have been particularly obstructive view-wise, so it's no wonder they modified plans eventually to get the far greater view from Studio E. Though, of course, they could have got a similar view by just moving the two proposed studios down a level.

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RE: BBC Breakfast/BBC News at One Extension? - interestednovice - 05-06-2023

I imagine the evolution of BBC World News as a channel also played into the plans for studios. Initially, the plan was clearly to simply replicate the setup at TVC. This made sense when WN was largely similar to the BBC NC for domestic viewers, and largely comprised of straight news bulletins.

Later on, by the time plans for NBH were further developed, WN had become a channel of focused branded strands. The opportunity was taken, with Studio B especially, to give each programme a distinct “look” and presentation style. This meant the big open space, and hard and soft sides of B both being available to them and flexible, was a huge bonus.

Initially, WN would not have probably wanted or expected to use such a space.

Now, of course, what goes around comes around and WN has largely adopted BBC NC presentation of “bland” bulletins again in the merger. The branded shows are no longer distinctive and are more just to give some space in the schedule from “BBC News” being the title of every hour.

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RE: BBC Breakfast/BBC News at One Extension? - DTV - 05-06-2023

(05-06-2023, 09:22 PM)interestednovice Wrote:  I imagine the evolution of BBC World News as a channel also played into the plans for studios. Initially, the plan was clearly to simply replicate the setup at TVC. This made sense when WN was largely similar to the BBC NC for domestic viewers, and largely comprised of straight news bulletins.

Later on, by the time plans for NBH were further developed, WN had become a channel of focused branded strands. The opportunity was taken, with Studio B especially, to give each programme a distinct “look” and presentation style. This meant the big open space, and hard and soft sides of B both being available to them and flexible, was a huge bonus.

I expect this was true later on, but the decision to drop the two newsroom studios was taken by at least the 2007 plan revisions - really before the brandification of BBC World, so I'm not sure it would have been a major influence in the changing studio plans on that level. Instead, I suspect the key thing in pushing part of World News into B was the fact that most of what used TC7 was axed or moved to Salford - leaving TC7's replacement with little to do all day. That big hole in their flagship studio's schedule, combined with that stretch of BBC World News having a lot of 'prestige' programming in it, gave them, as you say, a solid reason to move GMT, Impact, The Hub, etc. across to B.

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