[DTV]

IIRC the whole concept of these election debates have their roots in the presidential debates they have in the US, and have done for the last sixty odd years. There may have been a reason why we never had them before IIRC 2010, and I think they're so American in nature and its just not the sort of thing we really do that well over here.

I know we've sort of tooted the idea off and on as well since the 60s, but nothing ever got off the ground. Tonight just proves the point; its such a stilted format compressed into a short timescale and if you remember the 2010 incarnation had 76 "rules" to it, and it was so dry it was practically suffocating.

The reason the idea got delayed was that Granada tried a studio debate with party representatives (not leaders) in 1959 and the audience got so angry with the politicians that the parties simply refused to do any TV with an audience for nearly twenty years afterwards. When the idea came around again, as it is generally thought to be a better opportunity for the candidate who is behind, the candidate who was ahead simply found ways to avoid them - e.g., in 1997, there was prolonged negotiation about rules and candidate inclusion (Labour wanted Ashdown present, knowing the Tories didn't), with Labour then creating an arbitrary deadline for things to be agreed.

2010 was an exception because Brown was behind, Cameron concerned about not looking prime ministerial and Clegg happy to be there - so all parties saw benefits in agreeing, which was done months in advance. Subsequently, we're in a sort of weird middle-ground where they 'have' to happen, but someone always doesn't really want to do them, leading to late and botched arrangements. In the end, it just becomes another demeaning spectacle of people yelling soundbites each other, like a higher profile PMQs. Once the novelty wore off, it was clear they're not really of much value.

[JMT1985]

That is a very good audience rating for ITV - I was actually thinking it would come below or just around the 3 million mark, so peaking at just over 5 million is excellent for 2024.

[XIII]

The novelty usually wears off after the first debate so I think some of the debates will struggle later on. The BBC has one against a Euro match which seems foolhardy.

[Milkshake]

Lets be honest here its a box ticking exercise these debates. STV been doing leader debates for nearly 25 years, and it really helps keeps there PBS remit covered.

To be fair I think the STV/ BBC Scotland way of doing the debate are superior.

[lookoutwales]

The reason the idea got delayed was that Granada tried a studio debate with party representatives (not leaders) in 1959 and the audience got so angry with the politicians that the parties simply refused to do any TV with an audience for nearly twenty years afterwards.

Are we sure that's what happened, though?

That year, Granada did Marathon - an experimental effort to give airtime to as many candidates from as many constituencies in the North as possible (this was off the back of their successful pilot with the Rochdale by-election coverage)

It wasn't attempted again but by all accounts, it didn't appear to put people off such an idea.

Transdiffusion covered the behind-the-scenes story very extensively.

granadatv.network 

Marathon Archives - THIS IS GRANADA from Transdiffusion
From the North, this is Granada TV Network, weekdays across the North 1956-1968
  Source: granadatv.network

[James2001]

A shame BBC Parliament don't repeat old elections any more, the 70, 79 and 97 ones are currently up on iPlayer (and more were on there in the past), but it would be good to see more shown again. Would be good to see historic ITN election coverage as well- also notable as they have at least some of 59, 64 and 66 surviving on video, when the BBC only has theirs as telerecordings.

Also, whenever the 97 election has been shown, it's been the "clean" version without the results graphics or any other captions (though you can see them on some of the monitors in the studio), which makes things somewhat harder to follow. Is that the only version that exists, or just that it was the first version they pulled out and they've used every time since? Every other election they showed had the original graphics, but when they showed 2001 election, the picture quality wasn't great, looked like it was from a composite source and with a fair amount of analogue tape drop-outs (so presumably recorded to Beta SP rather than a digital format), I'm guessing that might be the only way the "dirty" version was recorded as it wasn't seen as a priority to archive (I presume the clean version survives in higher quality), the first few minutes of the post-breakfast coverage were from a clean version as well until the graphics suddenly cut in.

And speaking of Breakfast, we didn't tend to get that either, I think the 1979 one was the only one where it was shown in full. I think in earlier elections, it likely wasn't even recorded (as there wouldn't be any results coming in), though one of the 74 elections (I think the October one) we did get some of it, the 1970 one on the iPlayer starts at 9:03 just as the breakfast presenter hands over to Cliff Michelmore (I guess possibly more was recorded, but not enough for them to consider it worthwhole to include). 83 and later it would have been covered as part of Breakfast Time/Breakfast News which I imagine they treat separately (but I presume was still archived).

As I've highlighted before, the BBC clearly have both clean and dirty versions of the 1987 election, as the infamous clip of David Dimbleby caught with a mars bar has been shown at different times both with and without the results strap:

up.metropol247.co.uk 

[lookoutwales]

Seems quite unfair Plaid Cymru get their airtime at 11.40pm on ITV Wales tomorrow given they are the third largest party by votes and number of MPs in Wales. Would surely make sense to opt out of the ITV programme during the SNP interview to give them fair prominence.

In Plaid Cymru’s case, their leader will also be getting a peak-time slot tomorrow in the form of a Tonight special.

x.com 

[Gibsy]

Battle for No 10 on Sky News next Wednesday. Live from Grimsby. In depth interview followed by questions from the audience.

[TIGHazard]

A shame BBC Parliament don't repeat old elections any more, the 70, 79 and 97 ones are currently up on iPlayer (and more were on there in the past), but it would be good to see more shown again. Would be good to see historic ITN election coverage as well- also notable as they have at least some of 59, 64 and 66 surviving on video, when the BBC only has theirs as telerecordings.

Also, whenever the 97 election has been shown, it's been the "clean" version without the results graphics or any other captions (though you can see them on some of the monitors in the studio), which makes things somewhat harder to follow. Is that the only version that exists, or just that it was the first version they pulled out and they've used every time since? Every other election they showed had the original graphics, but when they showed 2001 election, the picture quality wasn't great, looked like it was from a composite source and with a fair amount of analogue tape drop-outs (so presumably recorded to Beta SP rather than a digital format), I'm guessing that might be the only way the "dirty" version was recorded as it wasn't seen as a priority to archive (I presume the clean version survives in higher quality), the first few minutes of the post-breakfast coverage were from a clean version as well until the graphics suddenly cut in.

And speaking of Breakfast, we didn't tend to get that either, I think the 1979 one was the only one where it was shown in full. I think in earlier elections, it likely wasn't even recorded (as there wouldn't be any results coming in), though one of the 74 elections (I think the October one) we did get some of it, the 1970 one on the iPlayer starts at 9:03 just as the breakfast presenter hands over to Cliff Michelmore (I guess possibly more was recorded, but not enough for them to consider it worthwhole to include). 83 and later it would have been covered as part of Breakfast Time/Breakfast News which I imagine they treat separately (but I presume was still archived).

As I've highlighted before, the BBC clearly have both clean and dirty versions of the 1987 election, as the infamous clip of David Dimbleby caught with a mars bar has been shown at different times both with and without the results strap:

up.metropol247.co.uk 

When they showed Election 2010, they included Breakfast. Though not listed as a separate programme, just part of the overnight coverage from 21:55 to 09:00

www.bbc.co.uk 

BBC One - Election 2010, Part One (2155 to 0900)
Another chance to see coverage of the 2010 UK General Election.
  Source: www.bbc.co.uk

[Neon Pig]

Battle for No 10 on Sky News next Wednesday. Live from Grimsby. In depth interview followed by questions from the audience.

Do we know who’s hosting this yet? Perhaps Kay or Beth Rigby?