[Keith]

I'm curious to finally see how ropey Look East from Norwich with their 13+ year old set and even older cameras looks.

I'd like to think they'd be fairly high on the list for getting a new set, as well as studio and other upgrades. If it hasn't already been stripped out they could in theory decamp to Cambridge for a couple weeks, which would be an improvement on current offerings from Norwich.

[Brekkie]

An absolute joke we weren't in this position over a decade ago. France TV is now looking at launching UHD channels this year whilst Freeview still has no reasonable plan to even have HD as the norm.

There is no reason now really why for the PSB muxes at least a conversion to HD can't be done to deliver the main ITV/C4 digital channels in HD as standard as well - you could convert D3&4 to T2 and have ITV2/3/4 and E4/More4/Film4 in HD with the rest on the mux in SD, and if the BBC mux is converted too (rather than used as a legacy SD mux) the BBC, ITV and C4 could effectively have one HD mux each, with C5 (main channel at least) and S4C accomodated.

Ideally the COM muxes would then follow suit but not crucial, but if they switched each mux to T2 they could keep the same number of channels but upgrade 4 of them to HD, which would be sufficient to cover the most watched channels in the country and collectively with the PSB muxes offer around 30 channels in HD.

[Technologist]

As far as PSB3 goes …it launching in T2 AVC AAC was a very good move
…frustrated by a full HD (mostly) by the effects of government in not adopting the Vaizey plan
and not keep the LF roughly in line with inflation …. Or increasing it at all .

Your proposal for PSB2 means that it is not carrying any PSB services ….
And I’m sure that BT will not be impressed moving from a fully regionalised mux
to two hand fulls of coders …..even as every one of the coders are HD capable…
…. But Arqiva may like the extra telco and transmitter conversion costs .
This dropping PSB requirements was a major factor in why Vaizey had issues….
But as he said the government can only easily mandate the PSBs to,emit HD only in all platforms

PSB 1 would close tv wise for under the Vaizey plan …..
But if you played about with things …
Its non tv services could be put on PSB3 … which would be the only regionalised mux.
And the only PSB mux….

Having looked at how HD broadcasting could be migrated even before Vaizey ….
It was a great pity that his plan was not carried out with proper funding for theBBC to do it …
Rather relying in the generosity of itv ….
There were /are a lot a variations but the need for probably only 1 PSB mux and it being regional
……plus probably the other muxes being national (pseudo PSB ) and uk wide (entire commercial )
so say about 20 HD services ….

Or as it has taken so long that the BBC policy of regional,HD on IPlayer only
Will be seen as being the right one.

The fact that the UK government did not exploit the band clearance is so silly !

[gottago]

An absolute joke we weren't in this position over a decade ago.    France TV is now looking at launching UHD channels this year whilst Freeview still has no reasonable plan to even have HD as the norm.   

There is no reason now really why for the PSB muxes at least a conversion to HD can't be done to deliver the main ITV/C4 digital channels in HD as standard as well - you could convert D3&4 to T2 and have ITV2/3/4 and E4/More4/Film4 in HD with the rest on the mux in SD, and if the BBC mux is converted too (rather than used as a legacy SD mux) the BBC, ITV and C4 could effectively have one HD mux each, with C5 (main channel at least) and S4C accomodated.   

Ideally the COM muxes would then follow suit but not crucial, but if they switched each mux to T2 they could keep the same number of channels but upgrade 4 of them to HD, which would be sufficient to cover the most watched channels in the country and collectively with the PSB muxes offer around 30 channels in HD.

Unfortunately I can't really seeing there being an impetus on either the public or commercial side for any further conversion to HD now. The main PSBs are in HD (and regional) and I expect that's all that really matters to the government. I can't imagine they would be willing to support another digital switchover level campaign where people have to pay to upgrade equipment they (perhaps reluctantly) paid to upgrade when analogue was switched off; especially now during a cost of living crisis.

Similarly the commercial muxes aren't making anywhere near as much money as they used to as demand for digital linear channels decreases. The ITV annual report said SDN revenue has already dropped and will drop significantly further as long-term contracts - signed when Freeview was at its height - continue to expire and get renewed at far lower rates. I can't see them willingly investing in something that would significantly increases the amount of slots they can offer. Channels would have more leverage to negotiate lower prices when there's plenty of slots available. Even if they limit the number of slots by having HD channels, what's in it for mux operators when they're already carrying the channels in SD anyway? Worth mentioning there was nothing in that ITV report at all about preparing for any sort of investment in SDN in the future.

Perhaps the SD equipment used by muxes will become legacy and significantly more expensive to maintain in the long term? I don't know anything whatsoever about the technical side so don't even know if this would necessarily even be the case, but perhaps that's the only way T2 conversion could eventually happen. But then chances are by then the question will be if DTT itself is even worth maintaining.

[Keith]

Unfortunately I can't really seeing there being an impetus on either the public or commercial side for any further conversion to HD now. The main PSBs are in HD (and regional) and I expect that's all that really matters to the government. I can't imagine they would be willing to support another digital switchover level campaign where people have to pay to upgrade equipment they (perhaps reluctantly) paid to upgrade when analogue was switched off; especially now during a cost of living crisis.

Freeview HD / DVB-T2 support has been standard on TVs for several years now. The longer time goes on the more households are likely to have TVs that support this standard (not including those using Sky/Virgin). In the short-medium term retaining DVB-T on PSB1 or PSB3 would allow for a legacy SD service of the main channels for those who's TVs can't receive DVB-T2. The other multiplex could then be converted to DVB-T2 with only variations for nations.

Similarly the commercial muxes aren't making anywhere near as much money as they used to as demand for digital linear channels decreases. The ITV annual report said SDN revenue has already dropped and will drop significantly further as long-term contracts - signed when Freeview was at its height - continue to expire and get renewed at far lower rates. I can't see them willingly investing in something that would significantly increases the amount of slots they can offer. Channels would have more leverage to negotiate lower prices when there's plenty of slots available. Even if they limit the number of slots by having HD channels, what's in it for mux operators when they're already carrying the channels in SD anyway? Worth mentioning there was nothing in that ITV report at all about preparing for any sort of investment in SDN in the future.

Perhaps the SD equipment used by muxes will become legacy and significantly more expensive to maintain in the long term? I don't know anything whatsoever about the technical side so don't even know if this would necessarily even be the case, but perhaps that's the only way T2 conversion could eventually happen. But then chances are by then the question will be if DTT itself is even worth maintaining.

Arguably by converting to DVB-T2 they could then charge more for channels to broadcast in HD instead of SD. Potentially this might then increase or stabilise their revenues. I guess though that when the SD equipment becomes too expensive to maintain that'll be the bigger incentive for the upgrades to occur.

[Brekkie]

Unfortunately I can't really seeing there being an impetus on either the public or commercial side for any further conversion to HD now. The main PSBs are in HD (and regional) and I expect that's all that really matters to the government. I can't imagine they would be willing to support another digital switchover level campaign where people have to pay to upgrade equipment they (perhaps reluctantly) paid to upgrade when analogue was switched off; especially now during a cost of living crisis.

Freeview HD / DVB-T2 support has been standard on TVs for several years now.  The longer time goes on the more households are likely to have TVs that support this standard (not including those using Sky/Virgin).  In the short-medium term retaining DVB-T on PSB1 or PSB3 would allow for a legacy SD service of the main channels for those who's TVs can't receive DVB-T2.  The other multiplex could then be converted to DVB-T2 with only variations for nations.

Exactly.   Been standard since 2016 and widely available before then, and I suspect many have upgraded since then to get the latest smart TV apps too.

It seems Sky and Virgin are finally moving to ditching SD simulcasts and being HD as standard, so Freeview can't afford to be left behind.

[gottago]

Sky HD boxes were standard since 2010 and it took 13 years for the BBC to be willing to switch off SD regional news due to the amount of SD satellite boxes still in use. There will be many more SD Freeview boxes and TVs in use for years into the future and I can imagine a lot of Freeview users, particularly older and more casual viewers, have little interest in upgrading to more modern equipment. There were still loads of analogue TVs in use that had to have boxes installed when digital switchover happened. I think you're underestimating it quite a bit.

[Stuart]

Sky HD boxes were standard since 2010 and it took 13 years for the BBC to be willing to switch off SD regional news due to the amount of SD satellite boxes still in use. There will be many more SD Freeview boxes and TVs in use for years into the future and I can imagine a lot of Freeview users, particularly older and more casual viewers, have little interest in upgrading to more modern equipment. There were still loads of analogue TVs in use that had to have boxes installed when digital switchover happened. I think you're underestimating it quite a bit.

You can still watch HD channels on an analogue TV with the appropriate STB, you just get an SD quality picture through the SCART connection. If they require a new STB they are £25.

That's hardly the same argument as when switching off 405 Line TV because some people couldn't afford to spend 2 months wages on new equipment to receive colour TV in the 1970s.

[Former Member 406]

I'm curious to finally see how ropey Look East from Norwich with their 13+ year old set and even older cameras looks.

I'd like to think they'd be fairly high on the list for getting a new set, as well as studio and other upgrades.

We've rather passed the point of being "high on the list" now.

There are now 11 BBC regional news studios still in use across England, outside of London (since the Oxford and Cambridge sub-opts were axed).

5 out of those 11 sites have either already unveiled their new LED set or are currently de-camped to a temporary set, so we're now nearly half-way through the roll-out.

The ones that were/are "high on the list" being Nottingham, Birmingham, Hull, Leeds, and Tunbridge Wells (in that order).

Whichever region is next will therefore be the exact middle region to get done - 6th out of 11. The 5 remaining English Regional sites after that are inherently in the bottom half of the roll-out priority list.

[agentsquash]

I'd like to think they'd be fairly high on the list for getting a new set, as well as studio and other upgrades.

We've rather passed the point of being "high on the list" now.

There are now 11 BBC regional news studios still in use across England, outside of London (since the Oxford and Cambridge sub-opts were axed).

5 out of those 11 sites have either already unveiled their new LED set or are currently de-camped to a temporary set, so we're now nearly half-way through the roll-out.

The ones that were/are "high on the list" being Nottingham, Birmingham, Hull, Leeds, and Tunbridge Wells (in that order).

Whichever region is next will therefore be the exact middle region to get done - 6th out of 11. The 5 remaining English Regional sites after that are inherently in the bottom half of the roll-out priority list.

Is it reasonable to assume that Salford and Plymouth are bottom of the list, as they’re already fully HD?