[Former Member 406]

In the event that de facto Scottish Independence occurs at some point (either before or after any ITV plc acquisition of either STV Group plc as a whole, or at least of the Channel 3 publisher-broadcaster franchisees STV Central Ltd and STV North Ltd), then who knows what the implications will be for the continued presence or otherwise of what is after all the *UK's* Channel 3 Network in a country that would no longer be part of the UK.

At the very least, it may necessitate the disbanding of the border-transcencing ITV Border region ("ITV News Tyne Tees & Cumbria", anyone? - Which is one syllable longer still than the already-cumbersome-enough "ITV News Tyne Tees & Border" name, which thankully ceased being used a decade ago).

Maybe STV could end up becoming a standalone Scottish broadcaster in such circumstances (i.e. unrelated to the remaining UK's Channel 3 Network), but which buys-in many of ITV's programmes to fill its own channel(s) with anyway - Effectively making it the Scottish equivalent of the Virgin Media Ireland channels (formerly known as TV3).

[JAS84]

I'm not sure it's that simple. The existence of the Border region is due to the quirks of the old analogue transmitter system, right? Is that still a problem with Freeview? Obviously it's not a problem for streaming or satellite, which can decide your region by postcode, but if digital terrestrial still has the problem of transmitter range forcing a separate region for Cumbria and Southern Scotland, then Border can't be axed.

[Milkshake]

If Scotland had voted YES back in 2014 ITV/ofcom did have plans to spilt Border in two and were going to hand Scottish side to STV.

[Brekkie]

It doesn't seem a priority purchase for ITV right now, but the suggestion STV is going to screw up any minute and 'need rescuing' is nonsense.

Nobody has said that.  All I meant was ITV aren't actively pursuing it now but if STV were to ever get into a situation where they're selling up at a bargain price ITV might be more interested in snapping it up.

[Stuart]

At the very least, it may necessitate the disbanding of the border-transcencing ITV Border region ("ITV News Tyne Tees & Cumbria", anyone? - Which is one syllable longer still than the already-cumbersome-enough "ITV News Tyne Tees & Border" name, which thankully ceased being used a decade ago).

Having lived in mainland Europe, I know they are used to having FTA DTT broadcasts which ignore borders. They also have European-wide DSat rights for such things as Sports events.

Perhaps they were a little more advanced in that respect, although the issue is less relevant now.

When I lived in Germany my nearest shop was a mile up the road, which by chance happened to be in a different country.  I did used to smile as I walked freely over a dismantled border post and past a sign which announced I had entered another country.  (I am easily amused)

[Former Member 406]

I'm not sure it's that simple. The existence of the Border region is due to the quirks of the old analogue transmitter system, right? Is that still a problem with Freeview? Obviously it's not a problem for streaming or satellite, which can decide your region by postcode, but if digital terrestrial still has the problem of transmitter range forcing a separate region for Cumbria and Southern Scotland, then Border can't be axed.

The ITV Border region contains two seperate main transmitters.

The Scottish part of the Border region is served by the Selkirk transmitter (in the Scottish Borders county), and the English part is served by the Caldbeck transmitter (in Cumbria).

The former carries BBC Scotland, the latter carries BBC North East & Cumbria.

The Scottish part of the ITV Border region even has a small number of opt-out non-news regional programmes most weeks of the year, whilst viewers in Cumbria see whatever network programme the rest of England is getting.

So, I fail to see that anything is forcing the existence of a single "Cumbria & South Scotland" region for ITV1 or preventing it from being easily disbanded should the need/desire to do so ever arise.

[JMT1985]

Interesting talking about if an independence referendum had or will given us a YES vote and the consequence for TV broadcasting - I was speaking to a media critic from Dublin, who said she felt broadcasting in Scotland would remain largely unaltered.

She pointed to the Republic of Ireland, where on all of their television platforms, the BBC television channels along with the Channel 4 set of channels are all available on satellite, cable and broadband TV services without any problem at all - with Virgin Media cable having ITV3 and ITV4 on their package as well.

She said the same would happen with an independent Scotland - STV would remain, but would become a truly independent channel, and would sign a programming deal with ITV just like Virgin Media Television does in the republic, which is why This Morning, Loose Woman, Corrie, Emmerdale, Saturday Night Takeway, BGT, etc etc all air on Virgin Media One in the republic.

She felt that the BBC would leave, and a new Scottish Broadcasting Corporation would be created to take over from the BBC, government funded, possibly with advertising in a similar way RTE is funded in Ireland.

[interestednovice]

The ITV Border region contains two seperate main transmitters.

The Scottish part of the Border region is served by the Selkirk transmitter (in the Scottish Borders county), and the English part is served by the Caldbeck transmitter (in Cumbria).

The former carries BBC Scotland, the latter carries BBC North East & Cumbria.

The Scottish part of the ITV Border region even has a small number of opt-out non-news regional programmes most weeks of the year, whilst viewers in Cumbria see whatever network programme the rest of England is getting.

So, I fail to see that anything is forcing the existence of a single "Cumbria & South Scotland" region for ITV1 or preventing it from being easily disbanded should the need/desire to do so ever arise.

Indeed, it’s currently two separate sub-regions known as ITV Border (Scotland) and ITV Border (England), with the facility to be totally separate - as you allude to with the placement of transmitters - if that is required. There has been discussion in the past about STV “gaining” the Scottish part of the region, but I believe it was thought that local people liked their ITV Border programmes and did not feel they would be better-covered by STV, so Ofcom decided to leave the situation as it was.

In the event of Scottish independence, STV would probably gain that sub-region and be Scotland’s national Channel 3 broadcaster. I believe that the SNP have, in the past, also said that it would be their ambition to continue with a licence fee but use Scottish LF income to fund a new “SBC” to replace the BBC in Scotland.

In that scenario, it’s possible that STV could continue broadcasting a lot of ITV programmes, as VM do in Ireland, and SBC could have similar arrangements, possibly, with the BBC. But both would be run as separate broadcasters, not the current “affiliate” setup with STV.

I am sure that ITV would buy STV if the opportunity came along (i.e. a devaluation in STV shares, for whatever reason, meaning that ITV could pay a “fair” but comparatively cheap price compared with historical value) but that opportunity does not look imminent. However, you never know when it may appear. “Completing the set” would still appeal to them, I think, as then they would no longer need to consider STV at all at a network level. The network “complications” of having STV still exist, even in terms of branding on competitions etc, are obviously something that they would rather not have to deal with. Better for ITV plc to be able to operate ITV 1 just like all their other channels - with only minor regional variations across all of them. Then they can sell truly national and/or local ads, which would appeal.

Only 15 years ago, the network was still clearly a major headache for them. GMTV still held the breakfast license, Channel TV, UTV and STV all existed independently and they were quite restricted as a result - with things like the breakfast 9:25 end time cast in stone. Then the STV dispute started up and highlighted how strange the setup was.

Since then, every time they have sensed an opportunity, ITV have picked up all the other franchisees one by one. I have no reason to think things would be any different, hypothetically, with STV even with a shift to streaming over time. I personally think ITV are just in waiting game mode at the moment.

[Globaltraffic24]

Interesting talking about if an independence referendum had or will given us a YES vote and the consequence for TV broadcasting - I was speaking to a media critic from Dublin, who said she felt broadcasting in Scotland would remain largely unaltered.

She pointed to the Republic of Ireland, where on all of their television platforms, the BBC television channels along with the Channel 4 set of channels are all available on satellite, cable and broadband TV services without any problem at all - with Virgin Media cable having ITV3 and ITV4 on their package as well.

She said the same would happen with an independent Scotland - STV would remain, but would become a truly independent channel, and would sign a programming deal with ITV just like Virgin Media Television does in the republic, which is why This Morning, Loose Woman, Corrie, Emmerdale, Saturday Night Takeway, BGT, etc etc all air on Virgin Media One in the republic.

She felt that the BBC would leave, and a new Scottish Broadcasting Corporation would be created to take over from the BBC, government funded, possibly with advertising in a similar way RTE is funded in Ireland.

At the time of referendum, the Scottish Government detailed its plans for broadcasting as part of its independence white paper. It wasn’t hugely in-depth, but did outline a plan for a broadcaster called the SBC which would take over from the BBC. It was to be modelled on DR in Denmark. Commercial radio and TV would be issued with new licenses with existing commercial operators offered a degree of preferential treatment subject to meeting new home produced programming requirements. So, effectively, it would be similar to Ireland.

[Wrekin Havoc]

The ITV Border region contains two seperate main transmitters.

The Scottish part of the Border region is served by the Selkirk transmitter (in the Scottish Borders county), and the English part is served by the Caldbeck transmitter (in Cumbria).

As well as BBC North East & Cumbria and ITV Border England, the Caldbeck site also transmits the services of BBC Scotland and ITV Border Scotland. The separate services are known as Caldbeck and Caldbeck Scotland.