BBC, ITV, C4 and C5 to launch joint streaming service

(13-01-2024, 02:23 PM)BeeTee Wrote:  I cannot stress this enough. One. Step. At. A. Time. ... The time will come when we know more, but it's just a beginning. Everyone who's stating the roll-out will fail may be right, but equally, just give it time...
It's OK to speculate, opine and debate on a discussion forum. If one wants to be critical, that's fine. If someone wants to stick their neck out and predict an outcome - that's fine. Of course there's every chance one's predictions might not turn out to be correct, but that's half the fun.

So long as we're not definitively stating an opinion as a truth, I'm not sure I see the problem; nor the merit in waiting to actually see what the outcome is before declaring one's opinion on what the outcome might be.

I think it's interesting to see what people think of stuff, both in advance of important product launches (now) but also years down the line when one looks back over past innovations. Provided they stay online, discussion forums are a really rich resource in terms of understanding a snapshot of opinions which existed during a moment in time - just the other day I found myself on a Google search binge looking for information about the former Ftn channel, which then sent me down a wormhole of rediscovering the rich range of opinions which existed about Freeview in general in those early months.

None of this would be possible if everyone just obeyed a 'wait and see before opining' instruction.

(13-01-2024, 02:23 PM)BeeTee Wrote:  There's a long way to go for Everyone TV on both Freeview, Freest and Freely, and this is ONE partnership with ONE manufacturer.
Which is a big part of the problem, from my perspective. One TV manufacturer - we don't even know how many Freely compatible models Hisense are working on. Unlike Freeview/Freesat, a somewhat walled garden which you can't just tap in to with a generic receiver. No app, no STB, nor any plans for either.

Contrast that to Freeview - who started with a captive market of up to however many subscribers ITV Digital had, with no requirement for them to change anything at all. Anyone else who saw/read/heard about the launch could walk in to their local electrical retailer and buy either an intended-for-ONdigital box, a Pace DTV Adapter or if they were really all-in an expensive IDTV; and it was clear that a plethora of other (better!) options were just around the corner, including all those categories and also DVD/HDD recorders.

Compare instead to Sky Glass - which despite a comprehensive marketing push far greater than anything we might realistically expect from Everyone TV or Hisense - is widely understood to have underperformed vs expectations. And in fairness, we knew from launch that Sky had a 'puck' product ready to go, they just made a choice to not make it available standalone straight away.

It just feels like there is lesson from history which is being missed here.

[Image: signature.jpg]
chatps.com
[-] The following 4 users Like WillPS's post:
  • bilky asko, LargelyALurker, Ma76, orange
Reply

Freeview has the D book which binds both the broadcasters and the stb tv makers into a system which interoperates ….. and is a specification not set by Freeview.
That is what made uk DTT take off ..as the D book also applied to on/itv digital.

So in some ways it,is a pity that DTG is not doing a similar hybrid tv spec for the Uk.
Reply

(14-01-2024, 02:22 AM)WillPS Wrote:  It's OK to speculate, opine and debate on a discussion forum. If one wants to be critical, that's fine. If someone wants to stick their neck out and predict an outcome - that's fine. Of course there's every chance one's predictions might not turn out to be correct, but that's half the fun.

So long as we're not definitively stating an opinion as a truth, I'm not sure I see the problem; nor the merit in waiting to actually see what the outcome is before declaring one's opinion on what the outcome might be.

I think it's interesting to see what people think of stuff, both in advance of important product launches (now) but also years down the line when one looks back over past innovations. Provided they stay online, discussion forums are a really rich resource in terms of understanding a snapshot of opinions which existed during a moment in time - just the other day I found myself on a Google search binge looking for information about the former Ftn channel, which then sent me down a wormhole of rediscovering the rich range of opinions which existed about Freeview in general in those early months.

None of this would be possible if everyone just obeyed a 'wait and see before opining' instruction.

Don't disagree with you at all. Opinions and views are what make up life, and, so long as they're respectful, crack-on. My point is more that people are writing Freely off before it's even got going, and before we really have any decent information to go on. I'm not at all saying people can't say what they think, or that they have to wait and see. But what I am saying is that people are judging the whole thing based on one announcement. I certainly don't expect people to 'wait and see'; but perhaps not to be too quick to judge and write it off entirely. It will take time to come into being, just as Freeview did.

(14-01-2024, 02:22 AM)WillPS Wrote:  Which is a big part of the problem, from my perspective. One TV manufacturer - we don't even know how many Freely compatible models Hisense are working on. Unlike Freeview/Freesat, a somewhat walled garden which you can't just tap in to with a generic receiver. No app, no STB, nor any plans for either.

We don't know if there are plans. We didn't know there was a deal with Hisense until recently. There may be more on the way. Same for apps, boxes, sticks, dongles etc. We simply don't know and can't conclusively say they have no plans.

(14-01-2024, 02:22 AM)WillPS Wrote:  Contrast that to Freeview - who started with a captive market of up to however many subscribers ITV Digital had, with no requirement for them to change anything at all. Anyone else who saw/read/heard about the launch could walk in to their local electrical retailer and buy either an intended-for-ONdigital box, a Pace DTV Adapter or if they were really all-in an expensive IDTV; and it was clear that a plethora of other (better!) options were just around the corner, including all those categories and also DVD/HDD recorders.

Freeview yes had the advantage of being more 'open', though as has been pointed out, this had some disadvantages at times with the split-NIT issues. However, it was also always going to be built-into TV's as the transition to digital carried through. There literally wasn't a choice. In the same vain, had OnDigital continued, it too would likely have been built into TV's. The difference now is that we have a whole world of streaming options. People, rightly, expect a similar level of service from Freely, which may well occur. However, it has to start somewhere. Starting with one manufacturer to prove the user interface, technology, ensure it all works etc., before any wider roll-outs (possibly to include, sticks, dongles, boxes etc.) is a fair way to go about it, and is a proven way to sensibly roll-out a product. I suspect we may end up with a situation more like Sky Glass; Freely is built-into some / all TV's, but there will be boxes or apps for older TVs, at least until its well-established. The principle is, we just don't know, so let's not write the whole thing off before it's even getting going.

(14-01-2024, 02:22 AM)WillPS Wrote:  Compare instead to Sky Glass - which despite a comprehensive marketing push far greater than anything we might realistically expect from Everyone TV or Hisense - is widely understood to have underperformed vs expectations. And in fairness, we knew from launch that Sky had a 'puck' product ready to go, they just made a choice to not make it available standalone straight away.

It just feels like there is lesson from history which is being missed here.

Yes, agree with your point entirely. But again, we can't conclusively say, nor can we jump to conclusions. As above, I'm not saying we can't discuss until we know for sure, but also the service is being unfairly judged on the back of a single announcement. It has to start somewhere, and it will grow. How it grows remains to be seen, but we can't write it off before it begins; that's just madness.
[-] The following 1 user Likes BeeTee's post:
  • London Lite
Reply

In the early days of Freeview, my friend who lived in South Wales at the time moved from London and realised the only way she could watch Channel 4 was through Freeview, so was one of the early adopters of the Pace box which gave her C4 in addition to S4C and a wider range of channels.

Fast forward to the near future and a Freely STB could do a similar thing for those in Freeview Lite areas or for those fed up with poor picture quality from the over compressed DTT muxes who want a much improved range of streaming channels. If we end up with one HD and one SD mux, Freely will become an essential tool in ensuring Freeview homes don't lose their line-up.

As for the Glass/Stream comparisons. This is Sky's way of gradually getting existing customers while new customers are offered Stream as default as a move away from linear distribution via Astra. The launch of Glass before using the Puck as Stream is a way of getting more money out of their customers who already spend a lot of money on the tv sub with some already with Sky Broadband and Sky Mobile. Stream also opened up a new market for Sky for those in rented accommodation or where they're not allowed to add a dish because the building is under a preservation order.
[-] The following 4 users Like London Lite's post:
  • AndrewP, BeeTee, interestednovice, Ma76
Reply

(14-01-2024, 02:39 PM)London Lite Wrote:  Fast forward to the near future and a Freely STB could do a similar thing for those in Freeview Lite areas or for those fed up with poor picture quality from the over compressed DTT muxes who want a much improved range of streaming channels.

I guess that depends on what quality Freely will stream at. If it's low bitrate 25p streams like far too many streaming services are, then it's going to be a downgrade. Will need to be 50fps and a decent bitrate.
[-] The following 2 users Like James2001's post:
  • Ma76, radiorebel
Reply

One would hope it will be Sky Stream equivalent, broadcast-quality streams.

I am expecting almost all channels in HD like Sky Stream & Sky Glass too.
Reply

(14-01-2024, 05:14 PM)James2001 Wrote:  I guess that depends on what quality Freely will stream at. If it's low bitrate 25p streams like far too many streaming services are, then it's going to be a downgrade. Will need to be 50fps and a decent bitrate.
That’s why something like a D book is needed …..
and or something like DMOL was at DTT launch
To ensure interoperability …
At the moment only one uk broadcaster has their own CDN …
And it’s not Sky the second largest domestic ISP ….
[-] The following 3 users Like Technologist's post:
  • interestednovice, Ma76, WillPS
Reply

(14-01-2024, 01:26 PM)BeeTee Wrote:  We don't know if there are plans. We didn't know there was a deal with Hisense until recently. There may be more on the way. Same for apps, boxes, sticks, dongles etc. We simply don't know and can't conclusively say they have no plans.
We know there will be no other path other than 'buy a new TV from a limited selection' at launch, though.


(14-01-2024, 01:26 PM)BeeTee Wrote:  Freeview yes had the advantage of being more 'open', though as has been pointed out, this had some disadvantages at times with the split-NIT issues. However, it was also always going to be built-into TV's as the transition to digital carried through. There literally wasn't a choice.
Disagree strongly. At the time ITV Digital went bust and Freeview launched there was no real plan for DSO other than a vague ambition to do it by the end of the decade to release the spectrum.

There was real doubt at the time that it was viable, and one of the criticisms of early Freeview was that it wasn't a compelling enough offer to get people to 'self-select' digital vs analogue devices for the cost differential (often still hundreds). There was a concern among some that the platform had been intentionally filled out with low-quality offerings from multichannel operators.

(14-01-2024, 01:26 PM)BeeTee Wrote:  In the same vain, had OnDigital continued, it too would likely have been built into TV's.
It was built in to TVs. There were "DVB ready" TVs, manufactured by the likes of Panasonic, Sony etc which would (or at least should) accept a CAM provided by ONdigital. There were also cheaper 'Ready for ONdigital/ITV Digital' IDTVs with Bush and Matsui brands on them, which essentially had the guts of an ONdigital Nokia/Pace STB inside them.

The excellent ONhistory website has some contemporary literature on the former: www.onhistory.co.uk 

Needless to say they did not sell well, and the vast majority of subscribers chose to convert existing equipment with an STB instead; a trend which outlived ITV Digital and remained so right up until DSO.

(14-01-2024, 01:26 PM)BeeTee Wrote:  How it grows remains to be seen, but we can't write it off before it begins; that's just madness.
I would cordially suggest that predicting an approach will fail is not at all the same as 'writing it off before it begins', and that the latter is beyond the remit of any forum contributor.

(14-01-2024, 06:36 PM)Technologist Wrote:  That’s why something like a D book is needed …..
and or something like DMOL was at DTT launch
To ensure interoperability …
At the moment only one uk broadcaster has their own CDN …
And it’s not Sky the second largest domestic ISP ….
Completely agree, that would be great - perhaps it'll happen but the cynic in me thinks the Everyone TV consortium are just seeing £ signs. Not offering a conversion option is consistent with being primarily focussed on licensing money.

[Image: signature.jpg]
chatps.com
Reply

(13-01-2024, 02:23 PM)BeeTee Wrote:  I cannot stress this enough. One. Step. At. A. Time. There's a long way to go for Everyone TV on both Freeview, Freest and Freely, and this is ONE partnership with ONE manufacturer. We don't know if there will be more (likely), we don't know if there will be apps or software updates for any existing devices (possible), we don't know if it will be incorporated into new dongles, sticks or STBs (again, possible). The time will come when we know more, but it's just a beginning. Everyone who's stating the roll-out will fail may be right, but equally, just give it time...

Exactly. A complete over reaction from many here. So far this is no different to Sky Glass - launch it with a TV, add more options later.

Practically it makes sense to get it up and running on one device, fix any bugs and then expand to other devices later. It's initial launch is effectively beta testing. It could be a disaster if they launch it too widely too soon if the crinkles aren't ironed out.

Virtually all TV platforms have launched with one supplier then expanded overtime to be available in different ways. This is absolutely no different.
[-] The following 2 users Like Brekkie's post:
  • BeeTee, interestednovice
Reply

(15-01-2024, 11:42 AM)Brekkie Wrote:  Practically it makes sense to get it up and running on one device, fix any bugs and then expand to other devices later. It's initial launch is effectively beta testing. It could be a disaster if they launch it too widely too soon if the crinkles aren't ironed out.

Virtually all TV platforms have launched with one supplier then expanded overtime to be available in different ways. This is absolutely no different.
I'd agree that for a new product starting with just one manufacturer should make it easier to iron out any bug with Freely, as simply there's fewer variables. Presumably they have a strong lines of communication between Freely developers and HiSense, for identifying and resolving any bugs. Also, I assume/hope a commitment from the manufacturer to provide (and preferably push) regular software and firmware updates to devices/users.

If they were to launch with multiple manufacturers then you might have bugs that only occur with certain manufacturers/models, which may be probably harder to identify and resolve. Also, if the manufacturer wasn't regularly pushing software/firmware updates to Freely devices then users might have a poor experience, which in turn might put off others from using it. I'd expect in the first couple years it's likely some issues will be identified that would have slipped through internal testing.

Formerly 'Charlie Wells' of TV Forum.
[-] The following 4 users Like Keith's post:
  • Brekkie, interestednovice, Ma76, Nobby
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)