ITV in '93: 30 Years since the last Franchise Shakeup
#71

(08-01-2023, 05:34 PM)robertclark125 Wrote:  In other words, all they were doing was switching the output from the regional companies news studios to the main suites. What would've happened at weekends, when GMTV didn't have regional news?

This leads to another question; had Oracle retained the teletext franchise beyond 1992, would this have meant their regional sections being available during GMTV? On the flipside, had TV-am remained on air after 1992, and Teletext UK had the teletext service, I guess the regional teletext sections wouldn't have been available during TV-am?

I imagine at weekends the same happened, just with no bulletins. The regional companies were taken out of the chain totally during those times, it just passed through their buildings 

If TVam had stayed but Teletext Ltd had still git the license then there'd have been no difference during TVam. Teletext was inserted into the VBI at the transmitter sites so the difference in who was supplying the video was irrelevant. 

There woukd hav been a TVam ancillary text service on p600 of course
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#72

(08-01-2023, 04:30 PM)Stooky Bill Wrote:  GMTV still passed through the regional centres as they did the news bulletins, but my understanding but via the news studios who essentially opted out. 

I do seem to remember teletext vanishing during the regional news bulletins, so that would explain that, the teletext wouldn't pass through the studios.
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#73

The local Oracle service didn't start in Yorkshire until the very last few seconds of TV-AM's transmission.
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#74

(08-01-2023, 08:30 PM)James2001 Wrote:  
(08-01-2023, 04:30 PM)Stooky Bill Wrote:  GMTV still passed through the regional centres as they did the news bulletins, but my understanding but via the news studios who essentially opted out. 

I do seem to remember teletext vanishing during the regional news bulletins, so that would explain that, the teletext wouldn't pass through the studios, that potentially could have disappeared during local bulletins 
Teletext (capital T) was inserted at the transmitters so it shouldn't have done. 

The only teletext (lower case t) that passed through the TV stations were the ancillary services on p600 and subtitles. During GMTVs hours p600 was GMTV Text. That potentially could have disappeared during bulletins depending on how they were configured
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#75

It might just have been those that disappeared... it was a long time ago. Some parts of teletext definitely vanished during the regional bulletins (here in Emley Moor land anyway), even if it wasn't all of it.

Would be good if we could find a VHS recording of early-mid 90s Calendar bulletins during GMTV and put it through someone who has the software for recovering teletext from them.
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#76

They concurs with my memory - the 600 magazine was provided by GMTV while they were on air and Yorkshire after 9.25.

Some time later Yorkshire content was available 24/7 with GMTV having pages 640-649 at all times
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#77

(08-01-2023, 11:52 PM)Steve in Pudsey Wrote:  They concurs with my memory - the 600 magazine was provided by GMTV while they were on air and Yorkshire after 9.25.

Some time later Yorkshire content was available 24/7 with GMTV having pages 640-649 at all times
I think by the end most ITV stations had text services on 600 but they weren't there from day 1. 

The first I saw was that summer when I was down in the Westcountry area. I think theirs might have been done in house, whereas the other regions used Intelfax. Carlton/LWT and GMTV were late 93 I think 

Channel 4 and 5 had theirs too on p400 and p500 respectively. 4Tel was very minimal on day 1 and grew a bit although nothing like what they had pre-1993. Channel 5's was there before they even launched with transmitter details

None of those were part of Teletext (capital T) and were added with subtitles at the TV station, hence they had different headers
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#78

(09-01-2023, 07:05 AM)Former Member 443 Wrote:  There were occasional splats on the BBC as well, or at least hard-switches where the vision and/or sound momentarily glitches, but these were usually about a minute before the opt rather than on the second. BBC NE was particularly bad for this; you could clearly see the switchover, there would be a screen tear, and the picturewould often shift to the left/right and/or the colour saturation would change. Sometimes a small sound jitter as well (repeated or lost frames). It may have technically been genlocked, but clean it was not!
The BBC region would opt by taking the Network (now sustaining) feed through their mixer - then pressing the OPT switch - thus they could (elegantly) Mix or lead sound into their local programme
-  hence a splat perhaps before the actual opt point
and may be one after they opted back as they took themselves out of circuit.
of course if they genlocked there should be no problem ....   

But as the whole station had to be genlocked and with more VT editing which required stable pulses
.. the advent of the Synchronsier was a good thing ..except!!! ... ideally you needed two
One on the Mixer input so that Network was synchronous on the mixer,
the other on the local side of the Opt switch genlocked to the other input (Network)
so that the mixer out was synchronised to network

BUT  a region was lucky to get one....
It put two frames delay in the network feed which meant repeated or dropped frames
(think of the stutter you see when going to the red screen of death)
and in those days compenstating audio delays were not normal!!
so you lost lip sync!
so nearly always the possibilitity of a splat.
....and BBC Newcastle was well known for having more than most!

The other thing was that the opting/ network arrangements in
each region were different.... this was unified in the mid 1990s
when DCSIS/Stereo, Lambie Nairn Network ID, Regional Ceefax, Regional Recall,
new Pres desks, Regional subtitling and some other Techy things were done
to a common design  and implementation which solved most of the probelms. 

(09-01-2023, 08:58 AM)Stooky Bill Wrote:  I think by the end most ITV stations had text services on 600 but they weren't there from day 1. 

The first I saw was that summer when I was down in the Westcountry area. I think theirs might have been done in house, whereas the other regions used Intelfax. Carlton/LWT and GMTV were late 93 I think 

Channel 4 and 5 had theirs too on p400 and p500 respectively. 4Tel was very minimal on day 1 and grew a bit although nothing like what they had pre-1993. Channel 5's was there before they even launched with transmitter details

None of those were part of Teletext (capital T) and were added with subtitles at the TV station, hence they had different headers
There was the Ancilliary teletext service which (when providied) was on lines 21/334
and line 22 as subtitles were on line 335.

The purpose of this was to provide programme related information
- like listings, the recepies ,  contact details, other back ground on programmes
(and may be some news!!)  and PDC triggers
It was rather patchy as it cost each itv company to do it ....
so some did not / took their time! 
and then even when they had it tended not to promote it on screen
so few knew of it!
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#79

(09-01-2023, 10:27 AM)Technologist Wrote:  There was the Ancilliary teletext service which (when providied) was on lines 21/334
and line 22 as subtitles were on line 335.

The purpose of this was to provide programme related information
- like listings, the recepies ,  contact details, other back ground on programmes
(and may be some news!!)  and PDC triggers
It was rather patchy as it cost each itv company to do it ....
so some did not / took their time! 
and then even when they had it tended not to promote it on screen so few knew of it!
PDC was patchy on ITV, there was a website at the time that kept tracks of what broadcaster was doing what and it's still online:
625.uk.com 

The ancillary services were purely for programme related information, they couldn't tread on the toes of Teletext and do anything editorial. In one of the interviews I think I posted above, there was mention of how Oracle weren't happy with 4Tel doing more than just listings. It was quite a bone of contention as Channel 4 had given the contract to Intelfax before Oracle was also given the go ahead to provide it too. 

The post 1993 4Tel was very minimal, and the ITV companies didn't have their services ready either, I wonder how much of an afterthought they were
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#80

(07-01-2023, 09:30 PM)Stooky Bill Wrote:  There was a similar situation in the south west as Westcountry had a totally new transmitter distribution put into line at midnight so it wasn't just a change of origination point (I read somewhere that it was accidently put to air earlier that evening briefly)
There was quite a fascinating video on, of all places, the NTL Pension Association’s website, but it seems to have disappeared

Very high tech for the time, state of the art digital microwave links to link Cardiff to Plymouth, to the new sub regional studios and to the transmitters, and it didn’t carry just compressed digital video but also handling their data and phone needs too. Less capacity than we get into our homes today

(09-01-2023, 12:41 PM)Stooky Bill Wrote:  PDC was patchy on ITV, there was a website at the time that kept tracks of what broadcaster was doing what and it's still online:
625.uk.com 

The most fascinating part of the ITV PDC debacle is how against it HTV were, yet Westcountry (whose playout was done by HTV) were the first to enable PDC
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