[Spencer]

I did notice bbc one north east and Cumbria hd on 27.5w why Is that there? I imagine the red screen on death still appears on 27.5w?

That's Arqiva's backup distribution for DTT - it's not a 'DSAT' service. It's been carrying the NE version of SD since Bilsdale had its fire to provide a feed to some relays

Presumably the HD version of BBC One will also carry the NE version once the HD regions rolls out on terrestrial in the coming weeks.

Once Bilsdale is back to full effect I'd have thought it will go back to being a generic non  regional BBC1, with either the News Channel or London in the opt out times

How does the satellite feed of BBC One NE&C get to air on the affected Bilsdale relays?

Do they really each have the means of inserting it into PSB1? I thought this was a fairly complex and expensive process, hence why the regional versions of PSB3 can’t just have the regional HD channels added in at the TX sites.

Or does BBC One NE&C have its own single-channel mux at these sites?

[Technologist]

The 27.5 W services are a basically the whole two DTT muxes  Not individual services 
which at a main site  Is the third path ….. used when both telco links fail.
So the BBC Just feed a duplicate of the mux to the satellite for the failed site .
(And hope no other region has failed) 

For the Bilsdale relays it just needed to be modulated  and applied to the transmitter …. 

With clever maths it is possible to remove a service from a statmuxed
Stream and substitute another service which  itself can be in a satmuxed stream.
All without decoding  the substituting service …..
I demonstrated this to the BBC on 6/7/2005 ….You could not really see the join !

A use case may be a north Devon  relay  …it can receive Wenvoe perfectly
So drop in BBC one SW from DSAT …

But it was expensive …. And not thought reliable
So you will find a number of line fed relays on the north Devon coast

[Stooky Bill]

That's Arqiva's backup distribution for DTT - it's not a 'DSAT' service. It's been carrying the NE version of SD since Bilsdale had its fire to provide a feed to some relays

Presumably the HD version of BBC One will also carry the NE version once the HD regions rolls out on terrestrial in the coming weeks.

Once Bilsdale is back to full effect I'd have thought it will go back to being a generic non  regional BBC1, with either the News Channel or London in the opt out times

How does the satellite feed of BBC One NE&C get to air on the affected Bilsdale relays?

Do they really each have the means of inserting it into PSB1? I thought this was a fairly complex and expensive process, hence why the regional versions of PSB3 can’t just have the regional HD channels added in at the TX sites.

Or does BBC One NE&C have its own single-channel mux at these sites?

The satellite feed supplies the whole MUX (both PSB1 and PSB3 in this case) it's used as a back up for when a transmitter or relay loses its normal feed(s). Which in this case some have, so they're taking everything from satellite 

The usual default is to have a non regional version of BBC One for England, but because this is a long term outage they've swapped that out for the NE version. 

The disadvantage with this of course is that if the system is used by any other transmitter in England viewers there will see Look North. However its not that often it been used in anger and when it does its usually for a brief period

[Stooky Bill]

With clever maths it is possible to remove a service from a statmuxed
Stream and substitute another service which  itself can be in a satmuxed stream.
All without decoding  the substituting service …..
I demonstrated this to the BBC on 6/7/2005 ….You could not really see the join !

That was a big problem in the early days of DTT too, hence BBC1 was at a fixed rate as it was easier to replace in each region than if it was variable bit rate. Now that's not how it's done so isn't an issue any more. 

I'm pretty sure it's possible to achieve what you demonstrated quite easily these days,its quite a standard function in amy multiplexer hardware isn't it?

[interestednovice]

The usual default is to have a non regional version of BBC One for England, but because this is a long term outage they've swapped that out for the NE version. 
The disadvantage with this of course is that if the system is used by any other transmitter in England viewers there will see Look North. However its not that often it been used in anger and when it does its usually for a brief period

Interesting, so normally it is a rare Freeview outing of BBC One Nightlight (effectively)!

[Spencer]

So if the whole two muxes are being fed by satellite to the Bilsdale relays, what’s the purpose of the solo BBC One NE&C HD stream reported by @harshy and the SD equivalent mentioned by @Stooky Bill?

[interestednovice]

Perhaps to insert into the mux for regionalised BBC One HD (which will be broadcast from those relays as a regional service once changes are made to Freeview in March/April)?

That may be because distribution of PSB2 (BBC B) is not as badly affected overall but distribution of the correct regional feed isn’t possible without a satellite feed for some technical reason?

[Stooky Bill]

The usual default is to have a non regional version of BBC One for England, but because this is a long term outage they've swapped that out for the NE version. 
The disadvantage with this of course is that if the system is used by any other transmitter in England viewers there will see Look North. However its not that often it been used in anger and when it does its usually for a brief period

Interesting, so normally it is a rare Freeview outing of BBC One Nightlight (effectively)!

No, because that is only going out on the SD transponder at 28.2e which is the one that satellite viewers are receiving. 

Having a red caption saying about buying a new receiver would look odd and cause confusion on terrestrial where there's no SD closure scheme

[Stooky Bill]

So if the whole two muxes are being fed by satellite to the Bilsdale relays, what’s the purpose of the solo BBC One NE&C HD stream reported by @harshy and the SD equivalent mentioned by @Stooky Bill?

I don't think it's a seperate 'stream', they're the BBC One's that have always been on 27.5w, but just fed with the North East version of BBC One 

The transponder carries seperate services for the channels on PSB1 and PSB3 including national variants of BBC1 (see below) and the transmitter selects the correct combination to transmit. 

   

[Spencer]

So if the whole two muxes are being fed by satellite to the Bilsdale relays, what’s the purpose of the solo BBC One NE&C HD stream reported by @harshy and the SD equivalent mentioned by @Stooky Bill?

I don't think it's a seperate 'stream', they're the BBC One's that have always been on 27.5w, but just fed with the North East version of BBC One 

The transponder carries seperate services for the channels on PSB1 and PSB3 including national variants of BBC1 (see below) and the transmitter selects the correct combination to transmit. 

Thanks for the info and explanation - really interesting.