[Rex]

I was about to ask - if the Box channels lose money, why have they been held on to for so long - but thinking about it, it's probably a case of them just recently (perhaps not yet but imminently) dipping below the line of profitability.

Interested - what makes Film4 more worthy from your perspective? Of all their channels, Film4 is perhaps the one which any so-minded channel operator could potentially do.

I appreciate that Film4 Productions is a different beast but there's no reason Channel 4 need a 7 day full-time FTA film station to support that; Film4 Productions account for an absolutely tiny amount of the channel's output.

It's one of the stronger-performing Channel 4 offshoots and has decent brand recognition to go alongside it, though you raise a strong point regarding its long term viability.

If they're serious about growing their on-demand service with twice the number of current paid subscribers and a large film library, they might not even need a linear film service after all.

[AJB39]

I suspect that Box, Kiss, Magic and Kerrang will go first as they are not 4 branded. Not sure if they still run Box Africa but I assume that'll be going too.

Still sad to see them go.

They do have the Box brand so no reason why we couldn't see a FAST channel spun up using it.

Here is the press release from C4 though:
www.channel4.com 

I’ll miss Magic especially. I always find it nice to have on in the background.

[Stooky Bill]

I was about to ask - if the Box channels lose money, why have they been held on to for so long - but thinking about it, it's probably a case of them just recently (perhaps not yet but imminently) dipping below the line of profitability.

Yes that sounds about right, the exact wording is....
Proposing to close small linear channels that no longer deliver revenues or public value at scale, including the Box channels in 2024 and others at the right time

So the important words are 'no longer' and 'scale'. Sounds like they have been making money but less and less. And I'm not sure what the 'public value' of them is, there's certainly little public service broadcasting going on there, they're purely commercial.

I would have thought that they'd sell them if the right offer came along. They've always been partly separate from the main corporation and getting some money for them is more cost effective than winding them down

[Milkshake]

Of course If the channels made money, said money would have been reinvested back in to original programmes for Channel 4 surly?

[rick]

Another important word is "including" so some 4 branded channels are going too, so which ones are under performing currently and likely candidates I wonder...?

[Omnipresent]

I suspect the single biggest factor is the decline in advertising revenue.

I believe the loss of a single sponsor was behind the closure of Club MTV.

For me personally, music channels have been locked in a vicious circle.

They clearly don’t generate enough revenue to justify carriage in HD and they fall further behind in picture quality.

HD has been standard for new music videos for a very long time and many older videos are now remastered / upscaled in 4K on YouTube.

[watchingtv]

Could the +1 timeshift channels not just air on the Channel 4 (online service)? I still see a benefit and if its all automated surely doesn't cost much but adds to a range of FAST channels online.

[tmf9]

They clearly don’t generate enough revenue to justify carriage in HD and they fall further behind in picture quality.

HD has been standard for new music videos for a very long time and many older videos are now remastered / upscaled in 4K on YouTube.

There is a HD music channel, MTV Live HD, but in the UK it is only carried on Virgin Media.

[Stooky Bill]

I suspect the single biggest factor is the decline in advertising revenue.

I believe the loss of a single sponsor was behind the closure of Club MTV.

For me personally, music channels have been locked in a vicious circle.

They clearly don’t generate enough revenue to justify carriage in HD and they fall further behind in picture quality.

HD has been standard for new music videos for a very long time and many older videos are now remastered / upscaled in 4K on YouTube.

The main factor for Channel 4 is always advertising, it's their only real income and u like other broadcasters they don't own much in the way of intellectual property or programmes

The decline in music channels is mostly because of things like Spotify and Vevo and YouTube. There's much less demand for music channels these days

---

Could the +1 timeshift channels not just air on the Channel 4 (online service)? I still see a benefit and if its all automated surely doesn't cost much but adds to a range of FAST channels online.

I imagine 4 seven will be more likely to go at some point, it's a proper channel that repeats stuff which is effectively doing what on demand does.

The +1s don't cost much apart from carriage, their existence depends on demands over bandwidth

[WillPS]

I suspect the single biggest factor is the decline in advertising revenue.

I believe the loss of a single sponsor was behind the closure of Club MTV.

For me personally, music channels have been locked in a vicious circle.

They clearly don’t generate enough revenue to justify carriage in HD and they fall further behind in picture quality.

HD has been standard for new music videos for a very long time and many older videos are now remastered / upscaled in 4K on YouTube.

With respect, I don't think the average music channel viewer really cares much about picture quality. At one point, pre-YouTube, they might be a place to go to see a specific music video, and for those people PQ might be relevant, but obviously those days are long over. What kept them alive is that it is (or was) convenient television. PQ really didn't/doesn't matter to that audience.

As an extreme case in point - I'm super invested in PQ; I've got a 4K OLED TV, a 4K Apple TV, 4K Netflix and Disney+ subs, must've spent £300-400 on 4K Blu Rays at this point plus a standalone player for them... yet when I'm in the mood to shove one of these channels on in the background it doesn't bother me in the slightest that their PQ is ropey. In fact I even quite enjoyed seeing the inferior copy of the Wham video a few times before Christmas.

I think the issue is more that people don't think to put them on any more - for most people I know the go-to for those situations is to shove Friends on Netflix these days (or something similar).