UKTV Play to go HD

Perhaps a tweet to  might be in order. Looks to be active on twitter and probably fits the bill as someone high up who could deal with this. 

(08-09-2023, 08:53 PM)James2001 Wrote:  Still suffering from the filmising and zooming of course though...
In taking a PAL SD picture into a HD raster you need to zoom a bit
to get rid of the half lines that otherwise Twitter with the interpolation.

Also as Rec601 line blanking is narrower 10.6666 usec than PAL, 12usec +- 500ns
some tidying up of blanking is needed
Hence the BBC using 704 (11.85 usec) not 720 active pixels on PAL originated Digibeta

And of course rec601 in both 576 and 480 lines and 16*9 and 4*3
does not have square pixels ….. so standards conversion to rec 709 can be a bit exciting !

But does not explain the softness deinterlaced and miscentred output !
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  • Ma76

(09-09-2023, 08:18 PM)Technologist Wrote:  In taking a PAL SD picture into a HD  raster you need to zoom a bit
to get rid of the half lines that otherwise Twitter with the interpolation.

Funnily enough ITV3 don't seem to do this, as said twittering half lines at the top of the screen are very noticable on their Corrie and Emmerdale repeats!

But seeing as it's otherwise a sharp picture and properly interlaced, I'll let them get away with it Wink

But even then, I'm sure UKTV's zooming on the affected shows is more than is a lot more than is needed to cut that off, with it being zoomed in enough to put captions nearly at the bottom and sides of the frame, it must be around 5%-10%, seeing as it seems to vary between episodes, of the frame being cut off.
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  • Ma76

All uk broadcasters delivery is to,AS11 DPP…
Read section 1.8 …. And 1.6.2 !! 

But the issue may lie with whoever is parting the programme !

Considering it's been affecting programmes from multiple sources (for example ITV for The Upper Hand and All3Media for Kingdom in addition to the numerous BBC shows), I'm going from the assumption the broadcasters providing the material aren't to blame, as that would mean all three companies are having the same issue, which would be remarkable, it's most likely being caused by UKTV or whoever's preparing the material for broadcast on their behalf.

That BBC commissioning document points out things like scrolling end credits still have to be 50i/50p even on 25p shot programmes because of how juddery they'd be otherwise (not too noticable on Casualty as they're slow scrolling credits, but very noticable on the likes of The Upper Hand and Doctors where they're fast, EastEnders didn't have scrolling credits at this point), but of course this mess is making end credit rollers 25p as well- something which I imagine anyone making a show for the BBC would get told off for, but again it's something UKTV aren't seeing a problem with.

And obviously many captions are well outside the safe areas stated in that document as a result of the zooming in.
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  • Ma76

With IBC coming up later this week I sense some mumblings!!!!
from some key players in the chain ..... who say its not them!!
But Im sure that there will not be a rapid answer!

Considering we've had 9 months with them refusing to see a problem, I'd be more suprised if there was an admission and solution to be honest.

Whether Red Bee are responsible for the filmising and zooming going on or not, they were definitely responsble for this mistake! 

Though I'm wondering what the supposedly offensive word was? On that date it would have been an episode from series 1 or 2 (can't remember which episode was on the 12th June though), which was pre watershed even in 1987, so unless the subtitler added a word that wasn't spoken on screen, I'm wondering what it was.

Just read the decision ….. the word is there ….. 

There were 4 breaches of Red Bee processes by the subtitler …
and two appearances of the inaudible word
But I am surprised that there is not an auto profanity check….
(There is on real-time and you can select the words )
And that UKTV is not buying the subtitles from the BBC and then retiming them for parting
That could be (semi) automatic …

And the zoom /deinterlace is very very unlikely to be a Red Bee issue …..
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  • Ma76

Been meaning to ask actually, though I suppose Technologist's post pretty much answers it. Not sure if it might be better as a new post actually but I'll put it here for now.

Old shows such as this would have had their subtitles squirted through Teletext page 888, in the analog TV days on both Ceefax/Oracle (later Teletext).

Would the data for those subtitles have been embedded on llne whatever it was teletext (21?) in the VBI at the point of editing or added prior to broadcasting and thus is technically still available, even though teletext in that fashion isn't available any longer? Or do broadcasters have to effectively remake the subtitles for modern methods of broadcast via Freeview/Sky/Virgin?

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