[i.h]

I don't think that's true. LLU (local loop unbundling) means sending the user's line to a backhaul other than BT's at the exchange level. FTTC and FTTP lines still terminate at the exchange. I have FTTP with a Vodafone reseller, and my Openreach line connects to Vodafone's infrastructure at the exchange down the way.

EE, Plusnet and other BT Wholesale customers connect to the same infrastructure as BT (retail) customers.

The point of LLU was to allow ISPs to circumvent BT as far as possible, and that was by letting them rent copper lines (the local loop) to which they’d connect their own exchange equipment instead of BT’s. This was a significant cost saving and it freed them from being limited to the services BT wanted to offer, notably on speed where the LLU firms were a lot faster for a long time. Hence, “unbundled”.

With FTTC/FTTP Openreach returns to that role and it is very much bundled - it’s their DSLAM in the green cabinet or their FTTP OLT/ONT, and ISPs can only offer the speeds and features Openreach wishes to provide, the biggest gripe being the lack of symmetric gigabit service. I suppose the closest modern day version of “LLU” is PIA - where Openreach rents out its poles and ducts to other companies who run their own fibre and use their own equipment.

Can’t work out what you’re saying in the last line. BT Wholesale does not typically provide a full end to end internet service - they connect ISPs to their customers, eg the non BT-owned ISPs like Zen or Andrews and Arnold who maintain their own core networks even if they use BT Wholesale (and others) to handle the rest.

As further proof of it all, Plusnet still seems to have their own AS and their own IP addresses - bgp.he.net  - given the scarcity you’d expect BT to have them merged into their own pools if the network merger had taken place.

Untitled
You are being redirected.
  Source: bgp.he.net

[WillPS]

My exchange has Sky, TalkTalk and Vodafone as LLU providers.

All Openreach-serviced customers have an Openreach connection to the exchange (be it copper, fibre or copper to the cab and fibre the rest of the way). That's the 'local loop' as I understood it.

In the exchange, the connection hits Sky's equipment if it's a Sky customer (regardless of line type), Vodafone equipment if it's a Vodafone (or Vodafone reseller) customer or TalkTalk equipment if it's a TalkTalk (or TalkTalk reseller) customer. All other customers stay on Openreach lines and equipment until their connection hits their ISP higher up the chain.

It sounds like you're saying the last part is only true if it's a standard copper-to-the-exchange connection?

Edit - yep - bit of reading reveals I'm totally mistaken on that. Thanks for correcting.

Still, going back to the original point - given the similarity of hardware between Plusnet, EE and BT - surely they could just unlock the routers and transfer customers over between providers (like you can already do if you switch from BT to EE or Plusnet).

[i.h]

My exchange has Sky, TalkTalk and Vodafone as LLU providers.

All Openreach-serviced customers have an Openreach connection to the exchange (be it copper, fibre or copper to the cab and fibre the rest of the way). That's the 'local loop' as I understood it.

In the exchange, the connection hits Sky's equipment if it's a Sky customer (regardless of line type), Vodafone equipment if it's a Vodafone (or Vodafone reseller) customer or TalkTalk equipment if it's a TalkTalk (or TalkTalk reseller) customer. All other customers stay on Openreach lines and equipment until their connection hits their ISP higher up the chain.

It sounds like you're saying the last part is only true if it's a standard copper-to-the-exchange connection?

Edit - yep - bit of reading reveals I'm totally mistaken on that. Thanks for correcting.

Still, going back to the original point - given the similarity of hardware between Plusnet, EE and BT - surely they could just unlock the routers and transfer customers over between providers (like you can already do if you switch from BT to EE or Plusnet).

Yes, there are three parts

- the access network, which for Openreach FTTC/FTTP is entirely owned and operated by Openreach with the speeds/features Openreach wishes to sell, for FTTP that's right through to their ONT / "modem" in your house
- an aggregation network, which is where BT Wholesale is involved for those ISPs who use them as their middleman. The other major ISPs have their own equivalent networks, so in your case this is where Openreach and Vodafone interconnect. This is probably not at *your* exchange unless you live in a town/city centre, but it doesn't matter.
- the core network that actually connects to the internet, which is where I'm suggesting BT/EE/PN still operate separately.

As for the router point, I guess it would need a lot of testing to ensure it works perfectly and customers don't lose service. I understand the BT/EE/PN routers have different default PPP usernames/passwords and this mechanism is how the BT Wholesale network routes you to the correct ISP. There's a lot to go wrong, and I'm not sure the cost savings are really there to justify taking a risk.

"Digital voice" is another sticking point, as Openreach want rid of legacy phone services. BT of course happily moves you over to their service, but EE and PN have no equivalent product. Perhaps that'll be the way to get people onto BT proper - they just get sent a BT router and a date for migration...

[WillPS]

I guess there's always the option of just stopping sales of either BT or (more likely) EE products and then rebadging BT bills as EE, then gradually moving customers over to the 'future' platform gradually (not unlike EE themselves did with Orange services).

Mop up exercise in 5-10 years to move customers who haven't recontracted over.

[cable]

www.ispreview.co.uk 

BT UK Preps Pay TV Rebrand to EE TV with Free Multi-Room - ISPreview UK
Credible sources have informed ISPreview that broadband ISP and mobile operator …
  Source: www.ispreview.co.uk

Seems like something will happen.

[Stgreen]

www.ispreview.co.uk 

Seems like something will happen.

I work with BT/EE (aka BT Group) as a client so here's some semi-public info that has been hidden around the internet, but we can also see on the intranet:

Internal comms is talking about the "new EE" which will be rolled out later this year, it does seem imminent as there's a lot of buzz about it, including EE's venture into the "gaming" space (they have announced partnering with Xbox Game Pass already, have started selling gaming laptops and for a while it was the only place you could get a PS5), and there will be a refresh of the EE brand, with new typefaces and branding elements.

We don't have dates, but its definitely happening, you can even get special EE hoodies if you're good enough

[WillPS]

Presumably the new logo is the one on the new router:
ISP EE UK Launch 1.6Gbps Full Fibre Broadband Plan and WiFi 6 Router - ISPreview UK

ISP EE UK Launch 1.6Gbps Full Fibre Broadband Plan and WiFi 6 Router - ISPreview…
Broadband ISP and mobile operator EE (BT) has today, as previously leaked (here)…
  Source: www.ispreview.co.uk

[Allanbuzzy]

Presumably the new logo is the one on the new router:
ISP EE UK Launch 1.6Gbps Full Fibre Broadband Plan and WiFi 6 Router - ISPreview UK

It's BT's "peanut" to Virgin Media's "Mobius strip"?

Still though, really exciting to see the evolution of the EE brand, from transforming from a consumer mobile brand to BEING the consumer brand for broadband and TV.

[thomalex]

BT Tower to EE Tower rebranding when?

[VMPhil]

BT Tower to EE Tower rebranding when?

Never, hopefully.